Talk:Photosynthesis

Start article Photosynthesis

As CZ has not yet started an article on photosynthesis, I start the article as a 'stub', directing the reader to online sites and print literature for consultation until CZ Editors/Authors develop the article fully. Anthony.Sebastian 13:28, 4 August 2008 (CDT)

Cleaned up reference section some

I was Being Bold and cleaned out the table of contents from the reference section. I'll place it here, though in case there is a really good reason to keep it in.

Blankenship RE. (2002) Molecular Mechanisms of Photosynthesis. Wiley-Blackwell. ISBN 0632043210 (ISBN-10); ISBN 978-0632043217 (ISBN-13) (pbk)

• Table of Contents:

• Preface
• Acknowledgments
• The Basic Principles of Photosynthetic Energy Storage
• Photosynthetic Organisms and Organelles
• History and Early Development of Photosynthesis
• Photosynthetic Pigments: Structure and Spectroscopy
• Antenna Complexes and Energy Transfer Processes
• Reaction Center Complexes
• Electron Transfer Pathways and Components
• Chemiosmotic Coupling and ATP Synthesis
• Carbon Metabolism
• Genetics, Assembly and Regulation of Photosynthetic Systems
• Origin and Evolution of Photosynthesis
• Light, Energy and Kinetics
• Index

D. Matt Innis 15:28, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

I also removed the publishers note for the Morton reference because it sounded like a sales pitch for the book rather than anything new about photosynthesis. Most of the information concerning photosynthesis should probably be in the article itself rather than the footnote. Again, I'll put it here.

Morton O. (2008) Eating the Sun: How Plants Power the Planet. HarperColins. ISBN 0007163649 , ISBN 978-0007163649 (hbks).

• Publisher´s description:  A story of a world in crisis and the importance of plants, the history of the earth, and the feuds and fantasies of warring scientists—this is not your fourth-grade science class's take on photosynthesis….From acclaimed science journalist Oliver Morton comes this fascinating, lively, profound look at photosynthesis, nature's greatest miracle. Wherever there is greenery, photosynthesis isworking to make oxygen, release energy, and create living matter from the raw material of sunlight, water, and carbon dioxide. Without photosynthesis, there would be an empty world, an empty sky, and a sun that does nothing more than warm the rocks and reflect off the sea. With photosynthesis, we have a living world with three billion years of sunlight-fed history to relish….Eating the Sun is a bottom-up account of our planet, a celebration of how the smallest things, enzymes and pigments, influence the largest things¬¬—the oceans, the rainforests, and the fossil fuel economy. From the physics, chemistry, and cellular biology that make photosynthesis possible, to the quirky and competitive scientists who first discovered the beautifully honed mechanisms of photosynthesis, to the modern energy crisis we face today, Oliver Morton offers a complete biography of the earth through the lens of this mundane and most important of processes….More than this, Eating the Sun is a call to arms. Only by understanding photosynthesis and the flows of energy it causes can we hope to understand the depth and subtlety of the current crisis in the planet's climate. What's more, nature's greatest energy technology may yet inspire the breakthroughs we need to flourish without such climatic chaos in the century to come….Entertaining, thought-provoking, and deeply illuminating, Eating the Sun reveals that photosynthesis is not only the key to humanity's history; it is also vital to confronting and understanding contemporary realities like climate change and the global food shortage. This book will give you a new and perhaps troubling way of seeing the world, but it also explains how we can change our situation—for the better or the worse.

D. Matt Innis 15:42, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

The references

References 7 and 9 are also much too detailed. I suggest something like the following sentences. (They summarize how I understand the annotation given. I do not know the sources.)

• Reference 9:
  This article stresses the importance of oxygen as the main source of energy.

Remark: While, of course, photosynthesis produces oxygen, I do not understand why it is cited here. It is better put into the bibliography of oxygen!
I have therefore added oxygen as a related topic.

• Reference 7:
  A specialized report containing a brief introductory survey of photosynthesis and where it occurred.

Remark: The given link did not work for me. It complains about not being able to set cookies though my browser is set to allow them. Is it a commercial site?

Peter, it works well as is for my latest version of the Firefox browser. However, for my IE6 browser, the only way I could get it to work was to register for the site which only took a minute or so. Registration was free. There may be a way of getting IE6 to work without registration (Firefox worked without registration), but I couldn't find out how. Milton Beychok 02:23, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Moreover, I think that all the sources given in references 1-9 are better moved to the Bibliography. They are not needed on the main page. They should be arranged in an order that expresses for what readers they are recommended. Peter Schmitt 00:32, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

I plan to work on condensing the citation annotations in the future, especially promotional aspects. I do plan to continue annotating, as they can provide additional information for the education of the reader.

Some of the references in the Intro I added when article was stub. I will relocate them appropriately as article develops.

Right now I'm working on creating some original illustrations. Thanks for your input. Anthony.Sebastian 01:33, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Regarding citation style

Milton, I prefer the citation style where authors are listed:

Smith AB, Jones CD, Johnson EF. (year) ....

I learned this method from http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Help:Citation_style

I use it in all my articles.

The 'initials first' technique, with the unnecessary periods, I find distracting. I plan the revert back to my usual method.

Okay, but if you are going to use that style, please make sure that all of the references consistently use that method ... which was not the case when I revised your original version. Milton Beychok 01:38, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

I will work on condensing annotations in the future, but plan not to abandon them when they provide useful information I do not want to include in main text, where they break the flow.

Thanks for your help. Anthony.Sebastian 01:21, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Anthony, it would be most useful if you read the discussion on the forums here. It would appear that there is a consensus about excessive annotations. Regards, Milton Beychok 01:38, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Organic from inorganic?

If the terms are being used generally, I see the point, but carbon dioxide is certainly an organic chemical.

Calling carbon dioxide inorganic has nagged me all along, but I can't remember it called otherwise from all the papers/books on potosynthesis I've read. Whereas living systems do produce carbon dioxide, and lots of it, carbon dioxide through photosynthesis ultimately sources it, at least for photoautotrophs and heterotrophs. (Don't think that holds for chemoautotrophs, though.) Seems one must ask wherefrom carbon dioxide ultimates comes here on Earth. Not from living systems, surely. If the living world simply passes inorganically-originating carbon dioxide through itself, what justifies a claim of 'organic' for it. Your comment inspires further exploration. (Do you consider buckeyballs 'organic'? Living systems produce them.) Anthony.Sebastian 20:33, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Well, Buckeyballs are carbon structures.

I'm tempted to say that organic carbon dioxide is on the premium-priced aisle in the supermarket produce section. :-)

Howard C. Berkowitz 00:46, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Go ahead, give in to your temptation.

Carbon dioxide, no evidence of origin from living systems. Volcanic outgassing, early Earth. I'll go with the photosynthesis guys, continue referring to as 'inorganic'. Anthony.Sebastian 17:34, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Should we distinguish that this is a process in living cells? After all, practical photographic films use organic dye sensitizers to affect their silver ions.

Agree. Will find way to insert the point. Anthony.Sebastian 17:34, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

How do we distinguish from photoelectric effects? Howard C. Berkowitz 15:43, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Similarities there. Need section on other proton-driven processes, natural and artificial. Good point. Anthony.Sebastian 17:34, 31 December 2009 (UTC)