User talk:Robert Tito/Archive 2

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Editor status confusion

Tito,

On my user welcome page, http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/User_talk:Michael_Mills, you indicated that I was accepted as an editor:

"Welcome to the Citizendium! We're very glad you've joined us as an editor. Most of your functions you share with authors, so you'll probably want to read how to get started as an author."

However, another user, Matt Innis" removed my editor status. See: 

  http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/User_talk:Michael_Mills

At this point, I'm pretty confused. Thanks for helping to clarify this. 

-- Mike Mills

Signature

Try pasting this into your signature preferences. Chris Day (Talk) 01:44, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

[[User:Robert Tito|Robert Tito]] | <span style="background:black"> <font color="red"><b>[[User talk:Robert Tito|Talk]]</b></font> </span>, which should look like the following: Robert Tito |  Talk 

LOL Chris, I talked about the archive box. The link to my name is not correct it seems. Robert Tito (Talk)
I know the problem with the archive box. i designed it for the article space and forgot it might be used on user talk pages. Consequently, it links to the CZ article about you rather than your user page. Apparently you, and Larry, are not notable enough for your own articles ;) I can fix it though and then it will point to your user page. Chris Day (Talk) 10:56, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
OK, archive box is fixed, I think that is how you wanted it. You signature still needs to be tweeked too. At present the red talk link does not link to anywhere. The bolded code above will fix the problem. Chris Day (Talk) 13:11, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
Forget that last comment, i just noticed your lastest signature does not have the bold red talk link and has reverted back to a functioning minimalist look. Chris Day (Talk) 13:14, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

Question

Hello. You welcomed me to citizendium earlier [1] and I would like to thank you. Also, I have a question regarding society and religion. I was wondering if citizendium has any experts on hand who specialize in society, history and religion in South Asia.If not, then I can utilize my contacts to solicit help from peer-reviewed scholars in US universities who specialize in such topics to build good articles here.Analabha Roy 01:34, 26 March 2007 (CDT)

Big O

Robert will you join us here as a computer science editor. I will handle the constable issues on whatever you guys decide. --Matt Innis (Talk) 08:15, 26 March 2007 (CDT)

Hi, thanks for your input. Responded on Matt's page -- as the discussion there is the most complete and there is another math editor invited to put comments there (so let's centralize the discussion). --AlekStos 12:30, 26 March 2007 (CDT)

Well the only thing I wonder about is the following, but it is minor: We use O(something) and call O order of , usually trailing fast to 0. In general it can be called trailing part fastly approaching 0) hence O can also be interpreted as order of nearly zero. Anything to make it more transparant is welcome. Robert Tito |  Talk  12:34, 26 March 2007 (CDT)

hey

did this slow you down;) --Matt Innis (Talk) 15:39, 26 March 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for fixing up my late-night errors. Off to bed with me  :-) -- ZachPruckowski (Speak to me) 23:30, 26 March 2007 (CDT)

Great infinity cartoon. Reminds me of my own days in math, when my instructor who had an accent such that he pronounced "naught" as "not", would ask repeatedly: when Y approaches Yo, then - what is the limit? Nancy Sculerati 20:15, 28 March 2007 (CDT) Try explaining Fourier transforms when infinity isn't clear. let alone changing coordinate-system :) Robert Tito |  Talk 

Question

Robert: Yesterday, I got started. I moved over my Wikipedia article on Combustion Analysis. I made a link to the Engineering Drafts and Engineering Articles to be Approved. Do I have do something else? Thanks, Gordan -- Gordan Feric Robert: Yesterday, I got started. I moved over my Wikipedia article on Combustion Analysis. I made a link to the Engineering Drafts and Engineering Articles to be Approved. Do I have do something else? Thanks, Gordan -- Gordan Feric

Gordan, you cannot tag the article as to approve, that has to be done by 1 editor, not affiliated/contributing to the article. I will remove the ToApprove template, and advice you to check out the approval process, see the help pages. Robert Tito |  Talk  11:06, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
Robert: Thanks for the answer and corresponding feedback. As you can see, I am new with Wikipedia and Citizendium and their way of getting things accomplished. I am learning, but I still need some help while learing the basic principles of how the Citizendium article approval process works. Hopefully, my first article on Combustion Analysis will help me find out for the new and future articles. Basically, once I am done with an article, I just add a Category Tag at the bottom of the article page -- Engineering Workgroup -- and the rest is up to the Editors and I just need to follow the discussion page on what my responsibilities are. Thanks, Gordan Gordan Feric
Robert: I have another question. Now, I do know how to create new pages. How about deleting the pages that I do not need any more? Can I delete such pages or who does that part? Thanks, Gordan Gordan Feric To delete a page you submit a request at constables(@citizendium.org requesting the deletion, OR you can add the {{speedydelete}} template. The latter makes it simple: add that tag and it will be taken care of by one of the constables. cheers, Robert Tito |  Talk  13:28, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

test Robert Tito |  Talk  13:41, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

Wikimedia Commons

Dear Mr. Tito, Thanks for the confirmation. I would like to ask you if you think it is possible to use Wikimedia Commons pictures on Citzendium, or do we have to reupload them here as well?Soso Mamukelashvili 10:23, 30 March 2007 (CDT)

test

  • TIME
  • TIME

Divisor article

Is this article "in the pipeline" yet? I don't see it yet in any list, including list of unapproved articles. Thanks,Rich 23:45, 30 March 2007 (CDT) Rich, I added the labels Live and the Mathematics workgroup. You should ask one of the editors in Math to back you up and put the article up for approval. See our approval process for the details. Robert Tito |  Talk  01:45, 31 March 2007 (CDT)

Image

Hello Robert, how are you? I've been trying since this morning to upload a picture of Noam Chomsky (with a Creative Commons licence), however the system kept giving me some strange messages. Finally some minutes ago I was able to upload the picture, but when I look at the page it´s seems all my attempts got recorded. Would it be possible for you to delete the image (here [2]), so that I could upload again and all those attempts wouldn't be recorded? Thanks --José Leonardo Andrade 13:01, 31 March 2007 (CDT) Executed Robert Tito |  Talk  13:20, 31 March 2007 (CDT)

template for workgroup education

Do you think it will be useful for people who are actively writing but have not joined a workgroup or are not adding workgroup categories to articles? We could place this on certain people's usert talk pages. Feel free to edit it and please make a comment on the talk page if you are able. http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Template:Workgroup_introduction -Tom Kelly (Talk) 21:56, 31 March 2007 (CDT)

Macromolecular Chemistry

Hi there. I am a newly minted chemistry editor and recently added some comments to the Macromolecular chemistry talk page. Nancy suggested that I discuss with you suggested changes to improve this page.

My most grievous concern is that the opening paragraph incorrectly defines "macromolecule". My biology textbook (Purves) and Physical Biochemistry (van Holden) textbook state that "proteins are polymers of amino acids", a definition which contradicts the introductory definition. The introduction also incorrectly implies that "polymer" and "plastic" are synonymous. Unfortunately, this incorrect definition is proliferated throughout the article.

In my books, Tanford the physical chemistry of macromolecules it mentions proteins are examples of macromolecules, as does Lehninger in his book Biochemistry. The point I tried to make here was to make it clear to readers polymers are macromolecules and vv. But ask a general reader what is a polymer and they invariantly say: plastic, nylon. Not once it comes to thought biological molecules (many of which are macromolecular in nature) are polymers as well. Or using its synonym macromolecule.

Second, I'm not sure that this article presents the reader with "lucid, highly readable introductions written in compelling, narrative prose that really does the job of introducing a topic to people who need one" as per CZ article helpful hints There is a lot of information in this article but there is not much to inform the reader what the field of macromolecular chemistry is all about.

As it is not intended to do. It only tries to interest the reader to delve into follow-up chapters, each already mentioned by the suvdivisions later in the article. The world of polymers and (biological) macromolecules is far too complext to treat in one place and still be readable to and for general public. The deeper the reader delves the more a specialist one needs to be to understand. In my idea nobody needs to know any details of chemistry of physics to understand the top layer. The details as usual are far more complex - but acant and must not be touched in a top layer article, IMHO.

Third, the overemphasis on biological macromolecules seems inconsistent with common usage. The journal Macromolecules, for example, primarily emphasizes synthetic polymers and macromolecules. Discussions of proteins and nucleic acids typically find their ways into biology and biochemistry journals and come with their own set of terminology.

In the labs I worked Gorleaus Laboratory, University of Leiden as well as the free university and the university of amsterdam that distinction never was put in that way and it didnt matter be it biochemistry biophysics, physical chemistry or macromolecular chemistry.

My general suggestion is that we take this article and start to part it out into smaller articles. For example, the Macromolecules and Functions of macromolecules and Biomacromolecules sections could form the basis for a pretty hefty article on macromolecules. The Economics and Environment section could be expanded into an article on plastics. And the section entitled Introduction to Physical Polymer Chemistry seems to describe the discipline of polymer physics. Once this material has been seeded to additional articles, we can either redirect this page to the polymer chemistry page (which needs some work) or build a page from the ground up which describes the field of macromolecular chemistry, including history, professional organizations, and basic concepts along the lines of the flagship chemistry page.

Your thoughts? Jacob Jensen 03:16, 3 April 2007 (CDT)

My thoughts: macromolecular for the more polymeric solutions/fluid materials (as I intended to do) and polymer chemistry for the more (commonly) seen polymers (the hard plastic substances everybody associated with polymers..

The different subchapters were meant to be indicative of deepening articles all with their deepening and more precise and more scientific treatment of the matter. In my opinion - but then who am I, a person of 14 should be able to read it. But someone with knowledge should find a quick roadmap to more detailed info to look up. my 0.02€ on it. Robert Tito |  Talk  18:13, 4 April 2007 (CDT)

I don't think that I'm making myself clear. Here are the points that I'm trying to make.
  1. The fields of macromolecular chemistry and polymer chemistry are the same thing. No external, reputable source makes a clear distinction between the two.

I have presented some evidence above, namely the charter of the prominent (highest impact factor journal Macromolecules. There is also the Wiley-published Journal of Macromolecular Chemistry whose stated aim is to publish "...original research papers in all topical areas of polymer chemistry and physics." [3]

Consider also the IUPAC division IV, referred to as both the MACROMOLECULAR DIVISION[4] and POLYMER DIVISION[5] and responsible for the IUPAC goldbook which recommends treating "macromolecule" and "polymer molecule" as synonyms.

  1. The field of macromolecular chemistry is largely, but not exclusively, concerned with artificial synthetic polymers and their characterization.

Consider for example the contents of the 3-volume work "Macromolecular chemistry" published by the Royal Society, which devotes nearly three quarters of its 400 pages to synthetic organic chemistry and the characterization of synthetic organic polymers [6].

  1. The current article emphasizes biological macromolecules, especially proteins, which represent only a small fraction of active research in macromolecular chemistry.

The work cited above devotes less than 20 pages to proteins and fewer than 50 to naturally occurring polymers. I would also suggest perusing recent copies of prominent journals such as Macromolecules and Journal of Macromolecular Chemistry. In recent issues, the only mention of polypeptides or proteins is a single article on laboratory-synthesized polypeptides. The rest is all synthetic polymers.


Put simply, I think that there is no precedent for separating "macromolecular chemistry" and "polymer chemistry" into two separate articles because the prominent organizations in chemistry (IUPAC, RSC, ACS) agree that they are one and the same. If you can provide sources to the contrary I am happy to be wrong but I think that you are drawing an artificial distinction between the two. Jacob Jensen 22:27, 4 April 2007 (CDT) I try to make science accessible also for pre-graduates. I suggest the same solution as for the other. Robert Tito |  Talk  22:59, 4 April 2007 (CDT) by the way: I did say they are tautologies. Only people do not realize.

I'm still not sure what you are saying. If we are writing to a non-technical audience at any level, our first approach should be to disabuse them of any incorrect notions (such as the synonymity of "plastic" and "polymer") and introduce them to the language that scientists speak. Since no professional chemistry organization sees any difference between "polymer chemistry" and "macromolecular chemistry", it seems counterproductive to generate multiple articles suggesting that there is a difference.
In either event, please have a look at the polymer chemistry page that I have created. Again, my proposal is that the macromolecular chemistry page be redirected to this page and this represents, in my view, a lucid overview of the discipline of polymer chemistry intended for a technical or non-technical audience. Your comments are appreciated. Jacob Jensen 00:01, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
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