User talk:Jitse Niesen: Difference between revisions

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== Thanks ==
Well, I'll try to make some edits (I am working on [[bijection]]), but watch my English - is faaaar from perfect :-(. [[User:Wojciech Świderski|Wojciech Świderski]] 03:38, 13 July 2008 (CDT)
:Don't worry about your English. I think it's good enough, and if not, it will be corrected. I will watch the [[bijection]] article and see if I can improve on what you write. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 16:18, 13 July 2008 (CDT)


You can find some more information about our collaboration groups if you follow this link [[Citizendium_Pilot:Discipline_Workgroups]]. Look at the left bar and you'll find other useful links. You can always ask me on my talk page or others about how to proceed or any other question you might have.
== Definition of a mathematical category ==
Thanks for the adjustment to the definition of a mathematical category.  I'm working on an illustrated example. [[User:Peter Lyall Easthope|Peter Lyall Easthope]] 14:42, 13 July 2008 (CDT)


== Wikimedia, copyright, etc. ==


''Kind Regards'', [[User:Chris day|Chris Day]] [[User talk:Chris day|(Talk)]] 02:37, 12 February 2007 (CST)
Hi Jitse, when I needed a picture I always asked Stephen Ewen, but apparently he is on holiday, because he doesn't react to my messages. I like to have one picture of [[Hans Christian Oersted]] and perhaps two of [[James Clerk Maxwell]]. Wikimedia commons has plenty of those, but since I never bothered about copyright, I don't know if I can grab them. Do you know?--[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 10:12, 4 August 2008 (CDT)


== From your friendly neighbourhood mistress of ceremonies ==


Hi Jitse, and welcome to Citizendium! [[User:Fredrik Johansson|Fredrik Johansson]] 03:12, 13 February 2007 (CST)
I signed you in at [[CZ:monthly write-a-thon#The shy ones, absent-minded profs, and other modest creatures|The August Party]]  Do join us on Wednesday September 2nd for what I hope will be a very active party with music, music, music.  Theme:  "My Favourite Band" (or, 'ensemble' or 'group' or 'orchestra' or 'singer' or 'recording' or...?
[[User:Aleta Curry|Aleta Curry]] 23:28, 7 August 2008 (CDT)


:Hi Fredrik. Nice to run into someone I'd met before. Let's see how this Citizendium thing pans out. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 04:54, 13 February 2007 (CST)
== Proposals results ==


== Straight line ==
Hi. Some months ago two proposals were presented, one concerning an "Internationalisation sandbox" [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Proposals/Internationalisation_sandbox] and another about translation of approved articles [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Proposals/A_new_subpage_for_translations_of_approved_articles]. I went to the Proposals main page and to its associated subpages to find the result of those proposals (it says that they were assigned to the Executive Committee), but nothing. Is it possible that I missed the page were the results of those proposals were posted or they still haven't been analysed by the Executive Committee? --[[User:José Leonardo Andrade|José Leonardo Andrade]] 13:15, 16 August 2008 (CDT)


Hi Jitse, happy to see you here. I agree with your views on straight line (I requested deletion). FYI, one may try to find a [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Category:CZ_Constables constable] i.e. 'admin, I know you know what it means ;-). Better yet, you just write to constables_at_citizendium_org and someone takes care. But it is not constable who decide. It is rather an [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Category:Mathematics_Editors _editor]. It could mean you, do not you think? Happy editing --[[User:Aleksander Stos|AlekStos]] 07:09, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
:These proposals have not yet been discussed by the Executive Council. I don't know what's happening. Your best chance is to ask the proposal driver ([[User:Pierre-Alain Gouanvic|Pierre-Alain Gouanvic]] and [[User:Jens Mildner|Jens Mildner]], respectively). I'm supposed to check that the proposals do not get stuck but I'm afraid I have been slack recently. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 07:10, 18 August 2008 (CDT)


:Hi Alexander. Thanks for your help. I'm already spending too much time at the other place, so if I became an editor here I wouldn't have any time left to write papers, and we all know what happens when you don't publish ;) But you seem to quite like it here, so I assume you will become one.
Thank you for the information. The drivers of those proposals haven't been particularly active on Citizendium lately, I've checked their contributions. It worries me that it takes so long to make a decision, the proposal looses momentum and perhaps even people loose interest. I'll see if I can contact those users. --[[User:José Leonardo Andrade|José Leonardo Andrade]] 13:31, 18 August 2008 (CDT)
:For the moment, I intend to drop by regularly, lend a hand if possible, and see how the project develops. If you ever have an issue here surrounding the 65xx magic number, feel free to ask. See you, [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 07:49, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
Jitse, editor zijn kost net zoveel of net zo weinig tijd als schrijven. De tijd die je investeert bepaal je uiteindelijk zelf. Je hebt alleen wel duidelijk inbreng in de werkgroep als geheel, en sommige artikelen in het bijzonder. Groet. [[User:Robert Tito|Robert Tito]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;<span style="background:black">&nbsp;<font color="red"><b>[[User talk:Robert Tito|Talk]]</b></font>&nbsp;</span> 21:31, 28 March 2007 (CDT)


:Ik zal erover denken. Groetjes, [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 21:54, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
== Link to an image ==


== Cantor's diagonal argument ==
Jitse, in the bibliography of the Rene Descartes article I tried to add a link to the scan
Descartes_Geometrie_matieres.png but the link is not visible.  Please tell me what is wrong.
Thanks,  [[User:Peter Lyall Easthope|Peter Lyall Easthope]] 17:21, 1 September 2008 (CDT)


I know this is annoying, but for tose of us who have forgotten, could you provide a glossary of symbols at a bottom section? I've forgotten what a lot of the symbols, including the Greek letters are, and so I can't read much of this. I don't mean a whole explanations just a simple:
:Hi Peter. I had a look and the link was visible, so I'm not sure what you mean. Perhaps you intended to include the actual image in the article? If so, you need to use Image: instead of Media:. Have a look at the edit I did just now ([http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=Ren%C3%A9_Descartes&diff=100383143&oldid=100381964 diff]). If that's not what you want, then just revert my edit. Cheers, [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 04:39, 4 September 2008 (CDT)


Greek letter=theta
jn>"I had a look and the link was visible, ..."<br>
Math symbol=union
Yes, the link was visible but led to an empty page! 
The link should anchor to the image.


kind of thing. Thanks for your patience. [[User:Nancy Sculerati|Nancy Sculerati]] 08:09, 31 March 2007 (CDT)
jn>"If that's not what you want, ..."<br>
Its ok for me but I would expect others to prefer that the title
be a link anchored to the image.


:It's an interesting suggestion. My first reaction was that if you don't know all the symbols, you have little chance to understand the article. However, I now think that might be a bit harsh and that we should consider it on an article-by-article basis; there might be some articles in which such a glossary would be useful. For this specific article, I think it's possible to explain the idea of the argument without using any symbols at all. [[User:Aleksander Stos]] has been working on it and added a more elementary discussion; I think it could be made even more accessible.
jn>"... then just revert my edit."<br>
::I used to know the symbols and I have forgotten them, that's why a glossary would be great. And so what? Inclusion hurts no one- this is not a book that will be too heavy or too expensive to print. Just make an addendum at the bottom of the article. No reason not to. [[User:Nancy Sculerati|Nancy Sculerati]] 23:49, 24 April 2007 (CDT)
I tried it. Not satisfactory as explained above.
:I think you should leave a message at the talk page as I did only one small edits while others are doing most of the work. In fact, I would have copied your message there had I been sure that would be a proper thing to do (I'm fairly new here). -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 21:04, 1 April 2007 (CDT)


== Newton's method ==
In any case, the image is now visible.  Thanks, [[User:Peter Lyall Easthope|Peter Lyall Easthope]] 19:45, 10 September 2008 (CDT)


If you have the time, perhaps you'd be interested in contributing to the article on [[Newton's method]] which I started a while back? [[User:Fredrik Johansson|Fredrik Johansson]] 10:42, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
== Discussion page for Category Th. article ==


:The outline looks good. Rather embarrassingly, I don't know that much on the more sophisticated variants. Two quick points:
There is also an issue on the discussion page for the Category Th. article. ...[[User:Peter Lyall Easthope|Peter Lyall Easthope]] 19:50, 10 September 2008 (CDT)
:* I'm not convinced that you need that much about cubic convergence. Convergence failure, on the other hand, is rather important.
:* If you want to add a bit on history, you can use the history section which I wrote in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Newton%27s_method&oldid=6712767 this revision on WP]. I'm not sure how to fit it in the rest of the article.
:I'll see whether I can find some time to add a bit on convergence failure. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 20:04, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


::Thanks for having a look, Jitse. I agree with the first point. Regarding the second point, I'm glad you wrote that history section! It's the only part of the Wikipedia article that I envy :-) Maybe you could paste it at the end of the article? [[User:Fredrik Johansson|Fredrik Johansson]] 20:50, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
:I finally got around to replying. This has proved to be a rather busy month. I copied your question from [[Talk:Category theory/Related Articles]] to [[Talk:Category theory]]. I think it's best not to use talk pages of subpages; it's just too easy to lose discussions and questions that way. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 06:10, 21 September 2008 (CDT)


:::Such profuse praise makes me suspicious ;) As you will have noticed, I copied the history part. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 09:21, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
== diff(approved, draft) ==


== Welcome again-as Editor ==
Jitse, there should be a one-click diff of a draft from the approved article.  An editor needs to see quickly any suggested improvement and a contributor should also see the differences.  Perhaps this exists and I haven't found it.  Thanks, [[User:Peter Lyall Easthope|Peter Lyall Easthope]] 10:08, 29 September 2008 (CDT)


{{ewelcome}} [[User:Nancy Sculerati|Nancy Sculerati]] 00:50, 25 April 2007 (CDT)
:Yes, there should be. I believe there even used to be a button for that, but it stopped working after a software update. I'll think about it. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 09:32, 30 September 2008 (CDT)


:Wow, you're fast. I was just writing a reply saying that your message had convinced me to send an application. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 00:54, 25 April 2007 (CDT)
::Correct, there used to be such a button.  I don't know what changed but that method no longer works. I have not seen any other way of doing it, except the obvious and laborious cut/paste/compare route. [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] 09:35, 30 September 2008 (CDT)


But-I had already received your application. Now, perhaps you will look at the messages under Approvals on the side bar? [[User:Nancy Sculerati|Nancy Sculerati]] 01:08, 25 April 2007 (CDT)
::P.S.  I'll track down the old method and show you how it was done. Possibly that will give you a clue to a fix. And thanks for the {{localurl: idea. It works prefectly. [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] 09:39, 30 September 2008 (CDT)


Congrats! [[User:Fredrik Johansson|Fredrik Johansson]] 02:10, 25 April 2007 (CDT)
== Naming proposals for wars ==


== Differential equations ==
Is the proposal process indeed the right format when I do not have a specific recommendation? In other words, I want to get some consensus on this, or at least the acceptance that the originator can come up with the name he or she thinks is most appropriate, and it's an accepted procedure that other names can be used, but they will become redirects in the interest of efficiency.


Sorry about the slip-up - I think the phone must have rang as I was about to do something. Your edit summary is correct and thank you for spotting my error![[User:W. Frank|W. Frank]] 08:42, 29 April 2007 (CDT)
This is something that could and should be a matter for a group of Military Workgroup editors, but, as far as I know, I'm the only one. There have been several examples of problems: I referred to a U.S. operation by its code name, in the all-caps format that the U.S. uses, and got an enormous number of complaints. There was much arguing about whether [[Vietnam War]] was proper going back to 1959, 1954, 1945, 1937, or earlier.


== Name ==
There is merit to spending time on the argument if there are serious questions about the time periods, and if they should have different names. In cleaning up what was an impossibly large Vietnam War article, I kept that as a main article but spawned links to a number of somewhat arbitrary subarticles.


Thanks Jitse!  I kept looking and looking to see why the link was red.  I could swear I spelled it right, but when you put the two together it was so obvious!!  Sorry about that.  It is important... we don't want the wrong guy to get all the credit ;---[[User:D. Matt Innis|Matt Innis]] [[User talk:D. Matt Innis|(Talk)]] 21:49, 10 May 2007 (CDT)
In other words, let's either have a policy, or accept the first author's working title (unless it is offensiveand put in redirects for every other proposal. [[User:Howard C. Berkowitz|Howard C. Berkowitz]] 17:38, 1 October 2008 (CDT)


Don't you worry, that's why they pay me the big bucks.. (not) ;-) --[[User:D. Matt Innis|Matt Innis]] [[User talk:D. Matt Innis|(Talk)]] 11:23, 11 May 2007 (CDT)
:The proposal process is not for brainstorming. You must have a reasonable definite proposal in your head before you start (or you may have two possibilities in your head), but not just a vague idea. If you have only a vague idea, then it's probably best if you conduct a couple of discussions first and that should give you an idea on what's the best.


I apologize to you Jitse, I want everyone comfortable and I blame myself for not managing better to do that. sorry. [[User:Nancy Sculerati|Nancy Sculerati]] 17:58, 11 May 2007 (CDT)
:The rule "originator chooses name" is a definite proposal, so you could try that. Whether it will be accepted is of course another thing. It seems to be in contradiction with [[CZ:Naming Conventions]].


== help with focusing on developed articles ==
:If something concerns only the Military Workgroup, and you're the only editor, then I think you can do whatever you like. The all-caps format is possibly an example of this. Just start a style guide for military articles, and write that U.S. code names should be all-caps. I can understand that many will dislike it, but I think within your discretion, as long as you're the only editor. Listen to the arguments, give them serious consideration, but in the end, the editors of the Military Workgroup decide. The only body who can overrule you is the Editorial Council, and if there are enough opponents they will probably petition it. Of course, it's another matter whether it's wise to do something that may alienate other authors and that may be overturned (personally, I think all-caps is odd, but I haven't followed the discussion and if this is the convention in the military and academics studying the military, that's a very strong argument).


Jitse, each Thursday I highlight some articles that are developing nicely, perhaps seem ready for approval, or would be if the right people took an interest and worked on them. I do this by going to http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Category:Developed_Articles and scrolling down to where the article's talk pages are listed, and browsing the corresponding articles. Could I ask you to do this? Well I just did, I guess I mean, could you kindly do this and let me know if you find any artices that you think might be ready for the kinds of attentions that bring approval? Either in your field or not. What looks like it would be an asset worth our combined attentions? thanks so much, (for reading this ramble- whether or not you oblige) [[User:Nancy Sculerati|Nancy Sculerati]] 10:27, 24 May 2007 (CDT)
:The Vietnam War is rightly is also in the History Workgroup, so you will have to work with history editors on the scope of our article [[Vietnam War]]. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 14:43, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


== Essentials ==
::It's a little worrisome that I am the only active editor for Military. I did start a draft of a style guide for Computers on the Workgroup page. Is that, in general, where such should go, or perhaps a subpage (or equivalent) of the main workgroup page?


Hi, glad to see you! [[User:Aleksander Stos|Aleksander Stos]] 02:12, 4 August 2007 (CDT)
::I'll propose some rules, once I know where to put them. I do have some specific things in mind, more where there are several ways to do it and I have no preference, and others where something is needed but I don't know what it is. In other words, for the latter two, I actively want discussion.


:Thanks, and also for the work on [[prime number]]. Didn't know you made "promotion", congratulations (I think). -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 00:59, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
::Objections to the all-caps conventions (and I have never said it should be used for everything) have been strong "I don't like it", as opposed to "the reason for not doing is..."  For example, if I put Operation Barbarossa in all caps, someone could quite properly correct me because the WWII Germans did not use all caps. The current British do not, which is why Operation Granby (they didn't have sub-operations) goes with Desert Storm/SHIELD/SABRE. It's a judgment call to use the English "operation" rather than the German "Aktion". Perhaps there should be a redirect of "Aktion Barbarossa". [[User:Howard C. Berkowitz|Howard C. Berkowitz]] 15:06, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks -- still learning and this time it took too long to move the text. I didn't forgot maths, though, and I'm thinking of a little innovation. CZ maths articles are deliberately "geared toward someone who is completely unfamiliar with the concept" (<small>google it to find the author ;-) </small>). We have "tutorials" while I believe that a more advanced reader could benefit more from "reference manuals": just essentials (relevant definitions, formulas, theorems). I envisage math "users" (rather than laymans), starting from undergraduates preparing for exams through graduates, PhD students to --why not-- scientists. I find that our basic formula is too sparse/too easy to be fully useful. No problem -- a "reference manual" could be incorporated in the subpage system we are planning. To give an example I'm preparing [[Complex number/Essentials]] (when more or less finished I'll put a post on a forum). Meanwhile, I'd appreciate your comments on the idea and the draft itself. [[User:Aleksander Stos|Aleksander Stos]] 08:05, 13 August 2007 (CDT)


I answered your question by mail. You're right regarding the interest in talk pages. Last time I checked  45% of edits was in the mainspace. So I go to work ;-) Nonetheless, I think we could talk less if more issues were decided -- this is just start and sometimes I feel we are in the undefined , esp. in maths. Perhaps it should be solved by writing articles. [[User:Aleksander Stos|Aleksander Stos]] 13:27, 20 August 2007 (CDT) PS. Good start with Noether, wish you good luck!
:::I can well imagine that it worries you to be the only active editor. Some guidance for style guides can be found in [[CZ:Proposals/Create workgroup style guides]]. It points to [[CZ:Chemistry style guide]] as an example. I think [[User:David E. Volk|David E. Volk]] is the person to ask questions about workgroup style guides. As long as the style guide for the Computer Workgroup is very short, you can keep it on the main workgroup page, but once it grows a bit (which will surely happen), it's probably better to put it on a page by itself. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 13:53, 22 October 2008 (UTC)


:Any idea what the number is for Wikipedia? I personally have about 50% of my edits in the mainspace there and I'd guess that the average is about the same. Of course, you cannot quite compare them: we have the forums; Wikipedia has more unproductive edits. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 21:23, 22 August 2007 (CDT)
==Belated Happy B'day!==
:: Well, 50% in the mainspace on WP means trolling  ;-) On a more serious note, global average on small and not-so-small Wikipedias is about 80% (e.g. fi, es, lt, pl, ja,no) or 70%  (de, hu, fr, lv). I'm not sure about enwiki, I'd guess it's about 60%-70%, I'll check. Actually, these numbers are not very accurate as including bots and, sorry to say, vandalisms. So maybe 50% is not far from the average for the real producers. Clearly, admins and active project leaders tend to have this number relatively smaller. On the other hand, I know some enwiki users with more than 0.6-0.7 (I have about 0.7) in the main (this number is naturally smaller for admins, though). More substantial would be not the global  average but a median of individual user's "coefficient". I do not know that (yet), except for a very old test for the top 600 active users on plwiki. By definition there were no vandals nor bots. The median was 77%.
Many happy returns of the day! [[User:Supten Sarbadhikari|Supten Sarbadhikari]] 00:26, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
::The bottom line is that, regardless, I consider 45% on CZ too modest. The only excuse I see is the early stage of the project and many undefined meta-wiki areas to cover. [[User:Aleksander Stos|Aleksander Stos]] 03:22, 23 August 2007 (CDT)


== LaTeX ==
== Admissibility of an Article ==


Dag meneer Niesen :-), I know your name from Wikipedia, where you still seem active. You and I both supported Bduke for adminship. I got completely fed up with WP, and won't contribute to it anymore.
I am interested to know whether an article about my grandfather's marine engine business would be admissible.  Easthopes were the most numerous small marine engines on the west coast of Canada during
the first half of the twentieth century. An article on Vivian Marine Engine Works is also possible.
Vivian built larger diesel engines used in tugboats, ferries, small freighters and other workboats.


It would be nice if you could fix LaTeX because the last couple of days I spent quite some time in workarounds. I am in the process of transferring my stuff from WP to CZ. But in between, I just finished  a couple of minutes ago a little stub about the Netherlands, just to have something about our country in CZGroetjes, Paul. --[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 09:35, 20 August 2007 (CDT)
I've had a brief look for rules of admissibility and not found any.
   
Thanks, [[User:Peter Lyall Easthope|Peter Lyall Easthope]] 16:49, 27 October 2008 (UTC)


:Not much progress on the LaTeX front. The software on Citizendium is out-of-date, so the tech guys needs to update it. I left a message on [[User talk:Jason Potkanski]] but no reaction. I'll probably e-mail him tonight.
:If the motors were fairly widely used in a broad area, sure, why not? Go for it! [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 17:10, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
:Yes, I'm still very much on the WP/CZ fence. I did remember your name from Wikipedia, but I did not remember the context. Anyway, I hope you'll have a better experience here. You are certainly hitting the ground running! Cheers, [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 21:23, 22 August 2007 (CDT)


:I sent emails to [[User:Jason Potkanski]] and [[User:Greg Sabino Mullane]]. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 21:26, 23 August 2007 (CDT)
::I agree. For future reference, the rules are in [[CZ:Maintainability]], but it is not clear (at least to me) how to apply them. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 12:40, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


:And Greg made it work. Look how \begin{align} is a joy for the eyes:
== Next step for disambiguation proposal ==
::<math> \begin{align} \sum_{i=1}^n i &= 1 + 2 + \cdots + n \\ &= \tfrac12 n (n+1). \end{align} </math>
:So, now that there are no more excuses, everybody can start writing article! -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 10:18, 24 August 2007 (CDT)


== Borel set ==
Hi, I'm trying to figure out what the next step is for my [[CZ:Proposals/Disambiguation mechanics |disambiguation proposal]]. I gather that I need to make a resolution in the EC that it be adopted - is that correct? Thanks... [[User:J. Noel Chiappa|J. Noel Chiappa]] 14:37, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


Beste Jitse,
:That's correct. I believe you're a member of the Council yourself, so you can propose the resolution yourself. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 12:20, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for your message and help with polishing the entry on Borel sets, I'm happy with the changes made. It's also nice to hear from someone else from Twente! I have a friend who got his PhD from Toegepaste Wiskunde - UT last year and is now doing a postdoc in the EE dept at the University of Melbourne, so it is not quite as rare as one may think :) I was with the Systems, signals and control group at Twente and worked with Prof. Arunabha Bagchi, I guess you were with the Numerical Analysis group (Ruud van Damme)?
:: Yes, nice feature, that! ;-) I'll go read up on the resolution stuff, and put one in the queue. Thanks! [[User:J. Noel Chiappa|J. Noel Chiappa]] 13:30, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


Met vriendelijke groet [[User:Hendra I. Nurdin|Hendra I. Nurdin]] 06:18, 1 September 2007 (CDT) PS. Mijn Nederlands is erg slecht en minimaal, but I try to use the little that I know once in a while
== About [[Logarithm]] ==


== applied math welcome ==
Jitse, I am thinking of adding another section to [[Logarithm]] entitled "Numerical examples". It would include an example of multiplication of two numbers (say 135.683 times 2.5787) and an example of finding a cube root (say of 738.532). I realize that calculators are used for that now ... but I still think that the article should include examples to show how such calculations were done before we had calculators. Do you think that such a section would enhance the article? Please let me know. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 19:13, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


My daughter Liz is studying applied math in graduate school (at Dartmouth), and MANY years ago I took a degree in math myself. I gave it all up for history, and am now busy doing history articles for CZ. So keep up the good work. [[User:Richard Jensen|Richard Jensen]] 02:11, 11 September 2007 (CDT)
:I think it would make a very nice addition. You could also write a bit about slide rules. At the moment, the article doesn't really explain why we should care about logarithms. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 12:33, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
==none==
Just noticed [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=Template%3AArchive_list_long&diff=100163009&oldid=100045000 this edit].  Thanks for improving it. [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] [[User talk:Chris Day|(talk)]] 01:59, 12 September 2007 (CDT)


==Your correction==
::Thanks for your comments, Jitse. However, a Mathematics editor  (named Dimitrii Kouznetzov) has now re-written the lead-in section and re-located the graph without any discussion or rationale on the Talk page. The net result is that the lead-in section which was easily understood before is now way above my head. Too much higher mathematics terminology. So I have decided to bow out rather than do any further work on the article. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 23:42, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
Jitse, thanks for noticing the error (X of A instead of A of X) in the definition of limit point. I noticed it as well and was trying to fix it at the same time you were making the correction (I've never had such editing coincidences before). [[User:Hendra I. Nurdin|Hendra I. Nurdin]] 06:57, 15 September 2007 (CDT)


==Your magic bot==
:::I'm looking at it. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 13:06, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


Jitse, Chris Day mentioned that your bot could change something on the metadata template. There is a variable called dialect which needs to be changed to variant. This variable doesnt actually appear on the standard article checklist, but is on the subpages metadata. Can you help with this? We need it for the implementation of Ed.Council Resolution 5. Many thanks. --[[User:Martin Baldwin-Edwards|Martin Baldwin-Edwards]] 06:43, 23 September 2007 (CDT)
:::Milton, that's exactly when people like yourself should be commenting. If you, an informed scientist, don't understand it what chance do others have? I'd argue that while editors are great for checking accuracy they are not so great a judging the correct level for a lay reader. I admit I have the same failings in biology. [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] 13:11, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


==Temporary Bot block==
::::I agree very much with Chris's comment. Milton, you can be useful in flagging things that are too complicated. As you may have seen, I also agree that the introduction that Dimitrii wrote is at too high a level. As for moving the graph, surely that can be discussed? My own opinion is that this is only a small detail. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 14:00, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
The Subpagination bot has been temporarily blocked for 3 days as we're doing the updates (we're down to one server at a time and experiencing heavy traffic for some reason).  This is not an indication of any failing on its part (indeed, I love it).  It's currently set to be blocked for 3 days - hopefully we'll have this sorted out tomorrow or Friday. Sorry.  --[[User:ZachPruckowski|ZachPruckowski]] ([[User_talk:ZachPruckowski|Speak to me]]) 17:22, 26 September 2007 (CDT)


==Complex number article==
:::::Chris and Jitse, I will take your words to heart. Next time, I won't "give up" so easily. Thanks, [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 15:49, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
Jitse, could you have a look at this [[Talk:Complex_number#Remaining errors in this approved article?]] Thanks. [[User:Hendra I. Nurdin|Hendra I. Nurdin]] 14:00, 20 October 2007 (CDT)


==Subpagination==
==Categories==
I think we fixed the server issue (reprioritizing the job queue) and Supagination Bot wasn't necessary the causeThe cause was altering the subpage templates constantly, which forced about a million page updatesIt's my understanding that Chris Day is re-doing the subpages for other reasons (size reduction), so check with him. --[[User:ZachPruckowski|ZachPruckowski]] ([[User_talk:ZachPruckowski|Speak to me]]) 09:38, 31 October 2007 (CDT)
Thanks for the follow up on Dmitrii's pageNow I think about it do we have a CZ: page on categories?  I don't recall seeing oneIf not I might take that section from Dmitrii's talk page and rework it into a short FAQ section on categories at citizendium. [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] 13:13, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


Hi, just to let you know, I replayed on my talk. Cheers, [[User:Aleksander Stos|Aleksander Stos]] 11:12, 5 November 2007 (CST)
:The only thing I know of is [[CZ:Article mechanics Complete#Categories]], which is hard to find and I think my explanation is a bit better. Oh, and there is also a paragraph at the pages about how we differ from WP: [[CZ:Introduction to CZ for Wikipedians]] and [[CZ:How to convert Wikipedia articles to Citizendium articles]]. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 14:00, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


I'll try and collate it. [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] 14:24, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


==subpages==
== Sinus en cosinus ==


Hi Jitze, sorry to be slow getting back to youThe only update since last time is that I noticed the currently template is stating to get pretty large after the all the transclusions are considered. One thing that kills it is if the metadata template has too much info. Therefore it would be god to keep that to a minimum. I would suggest the following content:
Hallo Jitse, ik heb dit geschreven: [[User:Paul_Wormer/scratchbook|sine and cosine]]. Ik heb geprobeerd dit op VWO niveau te schrijven. Maar voor mij is VWO bijna 50 jaar geleden (of eigenlijk bestond het toen nog niet) en ik bezit ook geen VWO boek(en). Met andere woorden, ik heb de didaktiek zelf verzonnen. Mijn plan is om dit in het stuk van Dmitrii te schuiven, maar voordat ik dat doe wil ik graag dat iemand anders er naar kijkt. Zou jij dat willen doen? Als je geen tijd hebt zal ik het Milton vragen. Groetjes, --[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 15:56, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


<pre>
:Dat is inderdaad hoe ik het zou doen. Eerst via een rechthoekige driehoek en dan via de cirkel. Op details heb ik wel wat opmerkingen. Ik zou in het tweede stukje geen vectoren gebruiken, maar alles uitdrukken in de coördinaten van een punt op de cirkel. En ik denk dat je bij het bewijs van de somformules een beetje te snel bent in hoe rotaties m.b.v. de (co)sinus uitgedrukt kunnen worden. Maar het is beter geschikt voor een algemene encyclopedie dan de tegenwoordige versie (ik heb de aanpak in het huidige artikel trouwens wel eens eerder gezien). -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 16:36, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
{{#switch: {{{info}}}
|      pagename =
|        variant =
|            abc = &nbsp;
|      cat_check =
|        status = currently no status
|    underlinked =
|        cleanup =
|            by =
|          cat1 =
|          cat2 =
|          cat3 =
<!--required for ToApprove template-->
|   article url =
|    subpage url =
|        cluster =
|            now =
|    ToA editor =
|    ToA editor2 =
|    ToA editor3 =
|          date =
<!--required for Approved template-->
|      A editor =
|      A editor2 =
|      A editor3 =
}}<noinclude>{{subpages}}</noinclude>
</pre>


This may be simlilar to waht you already have. If so then there is no problem. Note, if status is blank then leave it as "currently no status", if the abc field is blank then leave the non breaking space. does this make sense?  Chris
::Jitse, ik heb het bewijs van de somformules uitgebreid,  kan je nog 's kijken? Ik zou niet goed weten hoe ik dat bewijs zonder (eenheids)vectoren zou moeten doen, dus ik heb in de definitie voorlopig ook de vectoren maar laten staan. Misschien kan je iets specifieker uitleggen waarom je daar geen vectoren maar punten wil? Je (d.w.z. men) moet natuurlijk hoeken definieren, dus minimaal moet je lijnsegmenten invoeren, en het verschil met vectoren wordt dan nog slechts een kwestie van semantiek.--[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 14:18, 4 November 2008 (UTC)


== LaTeX problem ==
:::Ik heb inmiddels mijn meetkundige stuk in [[sine]] ingevoegd. Dus als je commentaar wil geven (of nog beter, zelf dingen wil veranderen) dan kijk s.v.p.  naar [[sine]]. --[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 10:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


Hi Jitse,
== Your testimony ==
I tried to typeset roman "Res" with "z=a" underneath. In plain TeX (and also LaTeX) I do this
Please [[CZ:Why I contribute to CZ|let us have it]]! --[[User:Larry Sanger|Larry Sanger]] 21:05, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
as follows: $\mathop{\mathrm{Res}}\limits_{z=a}$. But the Wiki TeX doesn't like this, do you know a solution? Thank you,--[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 02:13, 7 November 2007 (CST)


:The best solution is of course to fix the Wiki TeX, but the next best one, as far as I know, is to use \underset. For instance, write
== Driver ==
::<tt>\underset{z=a}{\mathrm{Res}} f(z)</tt>
:to get <math>{\underset{z=a}{\mathrm{Res}}} f(z)</math>.  You might have to add some spacing like <tt>\,</tt> after the <tt>Res</tt>.-- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 08:54, 7 November 2007 (CST)


::Bedankt, zie [[Augustin-Louis Cauchy#The works of Cauchy]].--[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 02:30, 8 November 2007 (CST)
Hi Jitse, good to see you active again. I have signed up as driver for two of the proposals.  What is the next step on my behalf?  I think we might want to get some more feedback on the proposals  since they have been sitting a while and there are new people here now.  I can then clean them up with to refelct the community input.  


== Netherlands ==
A third one I am driving, the subgroup proposal, is pretty much ready to go for a vote (that one is currently in the new proposal section.  [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] 22:59, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


Yes, I deleted those few  sentences because they were not true. The 7 provinces started first to be recognized as a sort of confederation  under the reign of Charles V (1515-1555). Not in the thirteenth century. I don't remember that I marked the minor box, I probably shouldn't have done that.--[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 02:41, 11 November 2007 (CST)
== CZ Governance ==


==forgot to mention==
Hi Jitse, thanks for restarting the proposals. But before I sign up as a driver again, I'd just like to know whether the CZ governance is dead or not. As a member of the Executive Committee you should know whether there's activity or not. It's just that I don't see any point in driving a proposal that's never decided upon. [[User:Jens Mildner|Jens Mildner]] 21:16, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
We got rid of the Unused pages subpage.  It is now incorporated into the talk page. So that page is no longer part of the cluster and does not need to be created by the bot. Sorry for not mentioning this before, it slipped my mind. [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] [[User talk:Chris Day|(talk)]] 08:12, 12 November 2007 (CST)
:Yes, I already found this out. Thanks anyway. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 08:18, 12 November 2007 (CST)


== thanks for the bot-work on subpages ==
== Advice on numerical problem needed ==


CZ pages look a lot sharper now (and look better than Wikipedia). Great job! [[User:Richard Jensen|Richard Jensen]] 09:40, 16 November 2007 (CST)
Hi Jitse, David Volk started [[Vector rotation]] and based himself on a paper in J. Graph. Tools (see [[Talk:Vector rotation#Paper on internet]] for a link to the full text of the paper). It seems to me that the paper contains an oddity/flaw, see [[Talk:Vector rotation#Paper on internet|talk page]]. Could you have a look at it and give your considered opinion? Thanks, --[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 01:09, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


Yes, thanks for the help with the bot, Jitse.  Sorry for my ignorance, but...is it finished subpaginating? --[[User:Larry Sanger|Larry Sanger]] 21:35, 21 November 2007 (CST)
== Bot for category creation? ==


== Ideals ==
Hi Jitse,
do you see a simple way to implement a bot script to create all those categories at [[Special:WantedCategories]]? --[[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] 07:56, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 
:I did this before, see [[User talk:Jitse Niesen/Archive 2#Bot request]]. I just need to know what text there should go on the category pages. If you could give me a list like: "For <nowiki>[[Category:XXX tag]]</nowiki>, use the same text as [[:Category:Mathematics tag]]" then I can do the rest. Alternatively, I can create the category page without any text. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 10:56, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 
::I have no idea about proper formatting of category pages, just saw that [[User:Meg Ireland|Meg Ireland]] does it all by hand, which I imagine to be a pain. I [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=User_talk%3AMeg_Ireland&diff=100480524&oldid=100480082 told him] about your offer but haven't seen a reaction. --[[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] 22:13, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 
== More on bots - what about bot support for approval process? ==


Dear Jitse:
Hi Jitse, please take a look at [http://forum.citizendium.org/index.php/topic,2666.0.html http://forum.citizendium.org/index.php/topic,2666.0.html] and if you see ways to make the process technically simpler (e.g. by means of a bot or of supplementary name spaces), please let us know. Thanks! --[[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] 08:24, 13 May 2009 (UTC)


Any element of the ring of integers x generates a (principal) ideal (x). This ideal, like all other ideals, factorises uniquely into prime ideals. Colloquially, we identify x with (x), and say the algebraic integer x factorises uniquely into prime ideals. Strictly speaking, however, you are correct.
== mathematics approval ==


[[User:Harald Helfgott|Harald Helfgott]] 13:07, 18 November 2007 (CST)
Could you have a look at the [[free statistical software]] article?  Howard Berkowitz nominated it for approval as a computers editor, but we could use a mathematician as well.  Thanks much! Joe ([[User:Approvals Manager|Approvals Manager]]) 18:53, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


==On topological space article ==
:I wrote a quick note on the talk page. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 07:41, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Beste Jitse, I just wanted to bring your attention to [[User_talk:Giovanni_Antonio_DiMatteo#Topological_space_article|this comment]] regarding the [[topological space]] and [[Topological Space]] articles. Groet, [[User:Hendra I. Nurdin|Hendra I. Nurdin]] 01:00, 3 December 2007 (CST)


== You deserve to be credited... ==
::Thanks, Jitse.  The article is now officially approved by Howard only, but we recently set a precedent for approving articles after the fact.  When you get home and have had a chance to recover from your travels, please go to the [[:Template:Free_statistical_software/Metadata|metadata template]] and add your name below Howard's in the "approved' section at the very bottom. Then leave a note on the Approvals Manager talk page and I'll add an appropriate notice to the approval subpage. --Joe ([[User:Approvals Manager|Approvals Manager]]) 18:32, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


Well, I see you were working away on party day, which makes you one of the [[CZ:Monthly Write-a-Thon#Shy Boys|shy boys]].  I’ll have to come and drag you in next month!  [[User:Aleta Curry|Aleta Curry]] 23:45, 9 December 2007 (CST)
== Rotation matrix ==


== No more unwanted spaces--thank you ==
Jitse, I wrote a article on the [[rotation matrix]].  Its final part contains an almost trivial derivation of eq. (1) of T. Möller and J. F. Hughes (the article that David Volk dug up).  I believe that this equation is the quickest way to build a rotation matrix from two vectors. I gave an alternative formula for the case that the equation breaks down. I believe that my alternative formula is a little faster than the Householder formula that David gave in [[Vector rotation]].  In doing this derivation I was breaking a CZ rule: I did it myself, I have never seen the equation elsewhere, although anybody, who would sit down for it, could derive it as an exercise. 


Hi Jitse,
I'm quite interested in your comments, since so far you always managed to find some (luckily so far non-disastrous) errors in my work. --[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 11:40, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 
:I'm travelling at the moment, so it's a bit hard to find the time. You will probably have to wait till when I return to England in a week's time. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 07:41, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


:thank you for your help. I'll do as you showed me. Best regards, [[User:Wlodzimierz Holsztynski|Wlodzimierz Holsztynski]] 09:22, 18 December 2007 (CST)
== an additional remark ==


== User:Subpagination Bot ==
Jitse, the following remark does not fit on Talk:Aleph-0:
<br> I did not choose "countable set" or "aleph-0" because it is my main interest, or a priority. When I happened to find Citizendium I immediately tripped over some poor articles, incomplete or even mistaken. That is why I registered. It is pure chance that I started with "neighbourhood" and "countable", but one leads to another, and rewriting "countable" made me look on sleph-0, somehow forced me to rewrite aleph-0 (and to start continuum hypothesis) in order to put some system in the topic.
[[User:Peter Schmitt|Peter Schmitt]] 00:19, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


Why is this a "bureaucrat" account? Thanks. [[User:Aaron Schulz|Aaron Schulz]] 12:51, 13 January 2008 (CST)
== Complex number page ==


:I think Larry made it bureaucrat so that I could turn on the 'bot' flag myself. But ask him to be sure. It doesn't need the 'bureaucrat' flag. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 13:12, 13 January 2008 (CST)
''Discussion moved to: [[Talk:Complex number/Draft#Division and conjugation]]'' [[User:Peter Schmitt|Peter Schmitt]] 23:40, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
::Haha! He told me to ask you! OK, so I suppose the right can be removed then. [[User:Aaron Schulz|Aaron Schulz]] 13:31, 13 January 2008 (CST)
:::Yes, go ahead. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 13:32, 13 January 2008 (CST)


== Core articles / graph theory ==
== Would you move the Associate Legendre Functions page to "ToApprove" status? ==


I just noticed that [[graph theory]] was in the list of core articles for both computers and mathematics. Math is a better home for it than computers, so I removed it from the computers list of core articles. However, if mathematics decides not to include graph theory in its final list, I would appreciate a heads-up so I can restore it to our list.
Hello Jitse,


Thanks, [[User:Warren Schudy|Warren Schudy]] 14:10, 13 January 2008 (CST)
Would you be willing to move the article [[Associated Legendre function]] to "ToApprove" status? If you look it over and decide there is some more editing required, would you inform me (and/or Paul Wormer) what is necessary? Thanks. [[User:Dan Nessett|Dan Nessett]] 18:53, 2 September 2009 (UTC)


== Bot request ==
== Would you move the Sturm-Liouville cluster to "ToApprove" status? ==


Would you mind using your bot to fill in a number of categories?  I recently wrote templates for the Categories of the form '''Category:''[Workgroup name]'' ''[Subpage type]''''' (like [[:Category:Geography External Link Subpages]], and it'd be nice if you could use your bot to fill them in. 
Jitse. If you are willing to work on both articles, I wonder if you would also move the Sturm-Liouville cluster as well as the Associated Legendre Functions cluster to "ToApprove" status? Thanks, [[User:Dan Nessett|Dan Nessett]] 16:55, 4 September 2009 (UTC)


The way it would work was, for each Workgroup name (from the [[CZ:Workgroups]] page), put this:
==Returning to Citizendium: an update on the project and how to get involved==
:<nowiki>{{</nowiki>Workgroup Related Articles subpages|group=''group name''}}
Hello - some time ago you became part of the Citizendium project, but we haven't seen you around for a while. Perhaps you'd like to update your [[User:Jitse Niesen|public biography]] or check on the progress of [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Jitse_Niesen any pages you've edited so far].
on '''Category:''group name'' Related Article Subpages''' and this
:<nowiki>{{</nowiki>Workgroup Bibliography subpages|group=''group name''}}
on '''Category:''group name'' Bibliographies''' and this
:<nowiki>{{</nowiki>Workgroup External Links subpages|group=''group name''}}
on '''Category:''group name'' External Link Subpages'''.


I'll have more subpage types templated pretty soon, but these are the default, most common, ones.
Citizendium now has [[:Category:CZ Live|{{PAGESINCAT:CZ Live}} articles]], with [[:Category:Approved Articles|{{PAGESINCAT:Approved Articles}} approved]] by specialist [[CZ:The Editor Role|Editors]] such as yourself, but our contributor numbers require a boost. We have an initiative called '[[CZ:Eduzendium|Eduzendium]]' that brings in students enrolled on university courses to write articles for credit, but we still need more Editors across the community to write, discuss and approve material. There are some [[:Category:Mathematics_Developed_Articles|developed Mathematics articles]] that could be improved and approved, and some [[CZ:Core Articles/Natural Sciences|high-priority Natural Sciences articles]] that we don't have yet. You can also create new articles via [[CZ:Start_Article|this guide]], and contribute to some Mathematics pages that have been [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=Special:RecentChangesLinked&target=Category%3AMathematics_tag recently edited] - or to [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges any others] on Citizendium, since you're a general [[CZ:The Author Role|Author]] as well as a specialist Editor. You may like to contribute to discussions in the [http://forum.citizendium.org forums], and might consider running for an elected position on the [[CZ:Management Council|Management]] and [http://ec.citizendium.org Editorial] Councils that oversee the project.


Let me know if you can help with this! -- [[User:JesseWeinstein|JesseWeinstein]] 15:42, 24 January 2008 (CST)
If you have any questions, let me know via my [[User talk:John Stephenson|Talk page]] or by leaving a message below this one. Thank you for your previous service; I hope that you will [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=Special:MyTalk look in] on our community soon. [[User:John Stephenson|John Stephenson]] 16:20, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


:Sure, that should be no problem. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 10:47, 26 January 2008 (CST)
== [[Reality]] ==


:This has now been done. I didn't change the 21 pages that already existed, but I made a list of them at [[User:Subpagination Bot/Task 2]]. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 12:12, 26 January 2008 (CST)
You might like to have a look at what's said about mathematics here. There's been some discussion already. [[User:Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson]] 10:54, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
::Wonderful!  Thanks you. I'll have more for you real soon now... [[User:JesseWeinstein|JesseWeinstein]] 03:05, 28 January 2008 (CST)

Latest revision as of 05:11, 10 March 2024

Thanks

Well, I'll try to make some edits (I am working on bijection), but watch my English - is faaaar from perfect :-(. Wojciech Świderski 03:38, 13 July 2008 (CDT)

Don't worry about your English. I think it's good enough, and if not, it will be corrected. I will watch the bijection article and see if I can improve on what you write. -- Jitse Niesen 16:18, 13 July 2008 (CDT)

Definition of a mathematical category

Thanks for the adjustment to the definition of a mathematical category. I'm working on an illustrated example. Peter Lyall Easthope 14:42, 13 July 2008 (CDT)

Wikimedia, copyright, etc.

Hi Jitse, when I needed a picture I always asked Stephen Ewen, but apparently he is on holiday, because he doesn't react to my messages. I like to have one picture of Hans Christian Oersted and perhaps two of James Clerk Maxwell. Wikimedia commons has plenty of those, but since I never bothered about copyright, I don't know if I can grab them. Do you know?--Paul Wormer 10:12, 4 August 2008 (CDT)

From your friendly neighbourhood mistress of ceremonies

I signed you in at The August Party Do join us on Wednesday September 2nd for what I hope will be a very active party with music, music, music. Theme: "My Favourite Band" (or, 'ensemble' or 'group' or 'orchestra' or 'singer' or 'recording' or...? Aleta Curry 23:28, 7 August 2008 (CDT)

Proposals results

Hi. Some months ago two proposals were presented, one concerning an "Internationalisation sandbox" [1] and another about translation of approved articles [2]. I went to the Proposals main page and to its associated subpages to find the result of those proposals (it says that they were assigned to the Executive Committee), but nothing. Is it possible that I missed the page were the results of those proposals were posted or they still haven't been analysed by the Executive Committee? --José Leonardo Andrade 13:15, 16 August 2008 (CDT)

These proposals have not yet been discussed by the Executive Council. I don't know what's happening. Your best chance is to ask the proposal driver (Pierre-Alain Gouanvic and Jens Mildner, respectively). I'm supposed to check that the proposals do not get stuck but I'm afraid I have been slack recently. -- Jitse Niesen 07:10, 18 August 2008 (CDT)

Thank you for the information. The drivers of those proposals haven't been particularly active on Citizendium lately, I've checked their contributions. It worries me that it takes so long to make a decision, the proposal looses momentum and perhaps even people loose interest. I'll see if I can contact those users. --José Leonardo Andrade 13:31, 18 August 2008 (CDT)

Link to an image

Jitse, in the bibliography of the Rene Descartes article I tried to add a link to the scan Descartes_Geometrie_matieres.png but the link is not visible. Please tell me what is wrong. Thanks, Peter Lyall Easthope 17:21, 1 September 2008 (CDT)

Hi Peter. I had a look and the link was visible, so I'm not sure what you mean. Perhaps you intended to include the actual image in the article? If so, you need to use Image: instead of Media:. Have a look at the edit I did just now (diff). If that's not what you want, then just revert my edit. Cheers, Jitse Niesen 04:39, 4 September 2008 (CDT)

jn>"I had a look and the link was visible, ..."
Yes, the link was visible but led to an empty page! The link should anchor to the image.

jn>"If that's not what you want, ..."
Its ok for me but I would expect others to prefer that the title be a link anchored to the image.

jn>"... then just revert my edit."
I tried it. Not satisfactory as explained above.

In any case, the image is now visible. Thanks, Peter Lyall Easthope 19:45, 10 September 2008 (CDT)

Discussion page for Category Th. article

There is also an issue on the discussion page for the Category Th. article. ...Peter Lyall Easthope 19:50, 10 September 2008 (CDT)

I finally got around to replying. This has proved to be a rather busy month. I copied your question from Talk:Category theory/Related Articles to Talk:Category theory. I think it's best not to use talk pages of subpages; it's just too easy to lose discussions and questions that way. -- Jitse Niesen 06:10, 21 September 2008 (CDT)

diff(approved, draft)

Jitse, there should be a one-click diff of a draft from the approved article. An editor needs to see quickly any suggested improvement and a contributor should also see the differences. Perhaps this exists and I haven't found it. Thanks, Peter Lyall Easthope 10:08, 29 September 2008 (CDT)

Yes, there should be. I believe there even used to be a button for that, but it stopped working after a software update. I'll think about it. -- Jitse Niesen 09:32, 30 September 2008 (CDT)
Correct, there used to be such a button. I don't know what changed but that method no longer works. I have not seen any other way of doing it, except the obvious and laborious cut/paste/compare route. Chris Day 09:35, 30 September 2008 (CDT)
P.S. I'll track down the old method and show you how it was done. Possibly that will give you a clue to a fix. And thanks for the {{localurl: idea. It works prefectly. Chris Day 09:39, 30 September 2008 (CDT)

Naming proposals for wars

Is the proposal process indeed the right format when I do not have a specific recommendation? In other words, I want to get some consensus on this, or at least the acceptance that the originator can come up with the name he or she thinks is most appropriate, and it's an accepted procedure that other names can be used, but they will become redirects in the interest of efficiency.

This is something that could and should be a matter for a group of Military Workgroup editors, but, as far as I know, I'm the only one. There have been several examples of problems: I referred to a U.S. operation by its code name, in the all-caps format that the U.S. uses, and got an enormous number of complaints. There was much arguing about whether Vietnam War was proper going back to 1959, 1954, 1945, 1937, or earlier.

There is merit to spending time on the argument if there are serious questions about the time periods, and if they should have different names. In cleaning up what was an impossibly large Vietnam War article, I kept that as a main article but spawned links to a number of somewhat arbitrary subarticles.

In other words, let's either have a policy, or accept the first author's working title (unless it is offensive) and put in redirects for every other proposal. Howard C. Berkowitz 17:38, 1 October 2008 (CDT)

The proposal process is not for brainstorming. You must have a reasonable definite proposal in your head before you start (or you may have two possibilities in your head), but not just a vague idea. If you have only a vague idea, then it's probably best if you conduct a couple of discussions first and that should give you an idea on what's the best.
The rule "originator chooses name" is a definite proposal, so you could try that. Whether it will be accepted is of course another thing. It seems to be in contradiction with CZ:Naming Conventions.
If something concerns only the Military Workgroup, and you're the only editor, then I think you can do whatever you like. The all-caps format is possibly an example of this. Just start a style guide for military articles, and write that U.S. code names should be all-caps. I can understand that many will dislike it, but I think within your discretion, as long as you're the only editor. Listen to the arguments, give them serious consideration, but in the end, the editors of the Military Workgroup decide. The only body who can overrule you is the Editorial Council, and if there are enough opponents they will probably petition it. Of course, it's another matter whether it's wise to do something that may alienate other authors and that may be overturned (personally, I think all-caps is odd, but I haven't followed the discussion and if this is the convention in the military and academics studying the military, that's a very strong argument).
The Vietnam War is rightly is also in the History Workgroup, so you will have to work with history editors on the scope of our article Vietnam War. -- Jitse Niesen 14:43, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
It's a little worrisome that I am the only active editor for Military. I did start a draft of a style guide for Computers on the Workgroup page. Is that, in general, where such should go, or perhaps a subpage (or equivalent) of the main workgroup page?
I'll propose some rules, once I know where to put them. I do have some specific things in mind, more where there are several ways to do it and I have no preference, and others where something is needed but I don't know what it is. In other words, for the latter two, I actively want discussion.
Objections to the all-caps conventions (and I have never said it should be used for everything) have been strong "I don't like it", as opposed to "the reason for not doing is..." For example, if I put Operation Barbarossa in all caps, someone could quite properly correct me because the WWII Germans did not use all caps. The current British do not, which is why Operation Granby (they didn't have sub-operations) goes with Desert Storm/SHIELD/SABRE. It's a judgment call to use the English "operation" rather than the German "Aktion". Perhaps there should be a redirect of "Aktion Barbarossa". Howard C. Berkowitz 15:06, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
I can well imagine that it worries you to be the only active editor. Some guidance for style guides can be found in CZ:Proposals/Create workgroup style guides. It points to CZ:Chemistry style guide as an example. I think David E. Volk is the person to ask questions about workgroup style guides. As long as the style guide for the Computer Workgroup is very short, you can keep it on the main workgroup page, but once it grows a bit (which will surely happen), it's probably better to put it on a page by itself. -- Jitse Niesen 13:53, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Belated Happy B'day!

Many happy returns of the day! Supten Sarbadhikari 00:26, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Admissibility of an Article

I am interested to know whether an article about my grandfather's marine engine business would be admissible. Easthopes were the most numerous small marine engines on the west coast of Canada during the first half of the twentieth century. An article on Vivian Marine Engine Works is also possible. Vivian built larger diesel engines used in tugboats, ferries, small freighters and other workboats.

I've had a brief look for rules of admissibility and not found any.

Thanks, Peter Lyall Easthope 16:49, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

If the motors were fairly widely used in a broad area, sure, why not? Go for it! Hayford Peirce 17:10, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
I agree. For future reference, the rules are in CZ:Maintainability, but it is not clear (at least to me) how to apply them. -- Jitse Niesen 12:40, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Next step for disambiguation proposal

Hi, I'm trying to figure out what the next step is for my disambiguation proposal. I gather that I need to make a resolution in the EC that it be adopted - is that correct? Thanks... J. Noel Chiappa 14:37, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

That's correct. I believe you're a member of the Council yourself, so you can propose the resolution yourself. -- Jitse Niesen 12:20, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Yes, nice feature, that! ;-) I'll go read up on the resolution stuff, and put one in the queue. Thanks! J. Noel Chiappa 13:30, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

About Logarithm

Jitse, I am thinking of adding another section to Logarithm entitled "Numerical examples". It would include an example of multiplication of two numbers (say 135.683 times 2.5787) and an example of finding a cube root (say of 738.532). I realize that calculators are used for that now ... but I still think that the article should include examples to show how such calculations were done before we had calculators. Do you think that such a section would enhance the article? Please let me know. Milton Beychok 19:13, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

I think it would make a very nice addition. You could also write a bit about slide rules. At the moment, the article doesn't really explain why we should care about logarithms. -- Jitse Niesen 12:33, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your comments, Jitse. However, a Mathematics editor (named Dimitrii Kouznetzov) has now re-written the lead-in section and re-located the graph without any discussion or rationale on the Talk page. The net result is that the lead-in section which was easily understood before is now way above my head. Too much higher mathematics terminology. So I have decided to bow out rather than do any further work on the article. Milton Beychok 23:42, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
I'm looking at it. -- Jitse Niesen 13:06, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
Milton, that's exactly when people like yourself should be commenting. If you, an informed scientist, don't understand it what chance do others have? I'd argue that while editors are great for checking accuracy they are not so great a judging the correct level for a lay reader. I admit I have the same failings in biology. Chris Day 13:11, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
I agree very much with Chris's comment. Milton, you can be useful in flagging things that are too complicated. As you may have seen, I also agree that the introduction that Dimitrii wrote is at too high a level. As for moving the graph, surely that can be discussed? My own opinion is that this is only a small detail. -- Jitse Niesen 14:00, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
Chris and Jitse, I will take your words to heart. Next time, I won't "give up" so easily. Thanks, Milton Beychok 15:49, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Categories

Thanks for the follow up on Dmitrii's page. Now I think about it do we have a CZ: page on categories? I don't recall seeing one. If not I might take that section from Dmitrii's talk page and rework it into a short FAQ section on categories at citizendium. Chris Day 13:13, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

The only thing I know of is CZ:Article mechanics Complete#Categories, which is hard to find and I think my explanation is a bit better. Oh, and there is also a paragraph at the pages about how we differ from WP: CZ:Introduction to CZ for Wikipedians and CZ:How to convert Wikipedia articles to Citizendium articles. -- Jitse Niesen 14:00, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

I'll try and collate it. Chris Day 14:24, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Sinus en cosinus

Hallo Jitse, ik heb dit geschreven: sine and cosine. Ik heb geprobeerd dit op VWO niveau te schrijven. Maar voor mij is VWO bijna 50 jaar geleden (of eigenlijk bestond het toen nog niet) en ik bezit ook geen VWO boek(en). Met andere woorden, ik heb de didaktiek zelf verzonnen. Mijn plan is om dit in het stuk van Dmitrii te schuiven, maar voordat ik dat doe wil ik graag dat iemand anders er naar kijkt. Zou jij dat willen doen? Als je geen tijd hebt zal ik het Milton vragen. Groetjes, --Paul Wormer 15:56, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Dat is inderdaad hoe ik het zou doen. Eerst via een rechthoekige driehoek en dan via de cirkel. Op details heb ik wel wat opmerkingen. Ik zou in het tweede stukje geen vectoren gebruiken, maar alles uitdrukken in de coördinaten van een punt op de cirkel. En ik denk dat je bij het bewijs van de somformules een beetje te snel bent in hoe rotaties m.b.v. de (co)sinus uitgedrukt kunnen worden. Maar het is beter geschikt voor een algemene encyclopedie dan de tegenwoordige versie (ik heb de aanpak in het huidige artikel trouwens wel eens eerder gezien). -- Jitse Niesen 16:36, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
Jitse, ik heb het bewijs van de somformules uitgebreid, kan je nog 's kijken? Ik zou niet goed weten hoe ik dat bewijs zonder (eenheids)vectoren zou moeten doen, dus ik heb in de definitie voorlopig ook de vectoren maar laten staan. Misschien kan je iets specifieker uitleggen waarom je daar geen vectoren maar punten wil? Je (d.w.z. men) moet natuurlijk hoeken definieren, dus minimaal moet je lijnsegmenten invoeren, en het verschil met vectoren wordt dan nog slechts een kwestie van semantiek.--Paul Wormer 14:18, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
Ik heb inmiddels mijn meetkundige stuk in sine ingevoegd. Dus als je commentaar wil geven (of nog beter, zelf dingen wil veranderen) dan kijk s.v.p. naar sine. --Paul Wormer 10:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Your testimony

Please let us have it! --Larry Sanger 21:05, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Driver

Hi Jitse, good to see you active again. I have signed up as driver for two of the proposals. What is the next step on my behalf? I think we might want to get some more feedback on the proposals since they have been sitting a while and there are new people here now. I can then clean them up with to refelct the community input.

A third one I am driving, the subgroup proposal, is pretty much ready to go for a vote (that one is currently in the new proposal section. Chris Day 22:59, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

CZ Governance

Hi Jitse, thanks for restarting the proposals. But before I sign up as a driver again, I'd just like to know whether the CZ governance is dead or not. As a member of the Executive Committee you should know whether there's activity or not. It's just that I don't see any point in driving a proposal that's never decided upon. Jens Mildner 21:16, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Advice on numerical problem needed

Hi Jitse, David Volk started Vector rotation and based himself on a paper in J. Graph. Tools (see Talk:Vector rotation#Paper on internet for a link to the full text of the paper). It seems to me that the paper contains an oddity/flaw, see talk page. Could you have a look at it and give your considered opinion? Thanks, --Paul Wormer 01:09, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Bot for category creation?

Hi Jitse, do you see a simple way to implement a bot script to create all those categories at Special:WantedCategories? --Daniel Mietchen 07:56, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I did this before, see User talk:Jitse Niesen/Archive 2#Bot request. I just need to know what text there should go on the category pages. If you could give me a list like: "For [[Category:XXX tag]], use the same text as Category:Mathematics tag" then I can do the rest. Alternatively, I can create the category page without any text. -- Jitse Niesen 10:56, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
I have no idea about proper formatting of category pages, just saw that Meg Ireland does it all by hand, which I imagine to be a pain. I told him about your offer but haven't seen a reaction. --Daniel Mietchen 22:13, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

More on bots - what about bot support for approval process?

Hi Jitse, please take a look at http://forum.citizendium.org/index.php/topic,2666.0.html and if you see ways to make the process technically simpler (e.g. by means of a bot or of supplementary name spaces), please let us know. Thanks! --Daniel Mietchen 08:24, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

mathematics approval

Could you have a look at the free statistical software article? Howard Berkowitz nominated it for approval as a computers editor, but we could use a mathematician as well. Thanks much! Joe (Approvals Manager) 18:53, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I wrote a quick note on the talk page. -- Jitse Niesen 07:41, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, Jitse. The article is now officially approved by Howard only, but we recently set a precedent for approving articles after the fact. When you get home and have had a chance to recover from your travels, please go to the metadata template and add your name below Howard's in the "approved' section at the very bottom. Then leave a note on the Approvals Manager talk page and I'll add an appropriate notice to the approval subpage. --Joe (Approvals Manager) 18:32, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Rotation matrix

Jitse, I wrote a article on the rotation matrix. Its final part contains an almost trivial derivation of eq. (1) of T. Möller and J. F. Hughes (the article that David Volk dug up). I believe that this equation is the quickest way to build a rotation matrix from two vectors. I gave an alternative formula for the case that the equation breaks down. I believe that my alternative formula is a little faster than the Householder formula that David gave in Vector rotation. In doing this derivation I was breaking a CZ rule: I did it myself, I have never seen the equation elsewhere, although anybody, who would sit down for it, could derive it as an exercise.

I'm quite interested in your comments, since so far you always managed to find some (luckily so far non-disastrous) errors in my work. --Paul Wormer 11:40, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm travelling at the moment, so it's a bit hard to find the time. You will probably have to wait till when I return to England in a week's time. -- Jitse Niesen 07:41, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

an additional remark

Jitse, the following remark does not fit on Talk:Aleph-0:
I did not choose "countable set" or "aleph-0" because it is my main interest, or a priority. When I happened to find Citizendium I immediately tripped over some poor articles, incomplete or even mistaken. That is why I registered. It is pure chance that I started with "neighbourhood" and "countable", but one leads to another, and rewriting "countable" made me look on sleph-0, somehow forced me to rewrite aleph-0 (and to start continuum hypothesis) in order to put some system in the topic. Peter Schmitt 00:19, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Complex number page

Discussion moved to: Talk:Complex number/Draft#Division and conjugation Peter Schmitt 23:40, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Would you move the Associate Legendre Functions page to "ToApprove" status?

Hello Jitse,

Would you be willing to move the article Associated Legendre function to "ToApprove" status? If you look it over and decide there is some more editing required, would you inform me (and/or Paul Wormer) what is necessary? Thanks. Dan Nessett 18:53, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Would you move the Sturm-Liouville cluster to "ToApprove" status?

Jitse. If you are willing to work on both articles, I wonder if you would also move the Sturm-Liouville cluster as well as the Associated Legendre Functions cluster to "ToApprove" status? Thanks, Dan Nessett 16:55, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Returning to Citizendium: an update on the project and how to get involved

Hello - some time ago you became part of the Citizendium project, but we haven't seen you around for a while. Perhaps you'd like to update your public biography or check on the progress of any pages you've edited so far.

Citizendium now has 16,414 articles, with 0 approved by specialist Editors such as yourself, but our contributor numbers require a boost. We have an initiative called 'Eduzendium' that brings in students enrolled on university courses to write articles for credit, but we still need more Editors across the community to write, discuss and approve material. There are some developed Mathematics articles that could be improved and approved, and some high-priority Natural Sciences articles that we don't have yet. You can also create new articles via this guide, and contribute to some Mathematics pages that have been recently edited - or to any others on Citizendium, since you're a general Author as well as a specialist Editor. You may like to contribute to discussions in the forums, and might consider running for an elected position on the Management and Editorial Councils that oversee the project.

If you have any questions, let me know via my Talk page or by leaving a message below this one. Thank you for your previous service; I hope that you will look in on our community soon. John Stephenson 16:20, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Reality

You might like to have a look at what's said about mathematics here. There's been some discussion already. Peter Jackson 10:54, 10 November 2011 (UTC)