User talk:Richard T Murray/Aspartame

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move to draft space

I think this entire article should be moved to a draft space; it's extremely ill-formatted and after reading over the content it looks like it needs heavy revisioning. --Robert W King 19:21, 20 December 2007 (CST)

I concur. This article has far too much about methanol, including quite a bit which might be copyright violation, and almost nothing about aspartame itself. Anything I find that's actually a copyright violaiton I'll remove and note. Anthony Argyriou 23:41, 20 December 2007 (CST)

I've removed a significant amount from this article - all of it pretty clearly in violation of copyright, except the extract from the Wikipedia "methanol" article, which would belong in our methanol article, not our aspartame article. What's left is not necessarily in the clear regarding copyright, it's just that I'm too lazy to piece it all together.

I think that the entire methanol section should be removed, as it places so much weight on that aspect of aspartame, which even if a valid concern, that the article cannot be called "neutral". Anthony Argyriou 00:03, 21 December 2007 (CST)

I am going to copy the entire articlespace to /Draft; it really needs a lot of work and I don't think it should exist as a part of our main articlespace until it is cleaned up to meet our bare minimum standards. --Robert W King 10:16, 21 December 2007 (CST)

older talk

initiating aspartame article on Citizendium democratic professional world encyclopedia -- opportunities for all citizens and groups: Murray 2007.11.20 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/1492

Herein I give an introduction, as the initiator of this article. I, Rich Murray, have for nine years as a volunteer public service, evolved a public archive of 1,492 posts, including this one, of long, detailed, fair, civil, hyperlinked review articles of mostly mainstream science and news on this and related citizen safety issues, for a rather silent group of 112 members. I also publish every post in aspartame@yahoogroups.com, http://RMForAll.blogspot.com and many groups on UseNet, such as sci.med.nutrition , bionet.neuroscience , and rarely, bionet.toxicology . Google Groups searches today puts 4 of my aspartame posts in the top 10 of 2,230 listings.

Aspartame since 1971 has 879 items in PubMed, including 20 studies since summer 2005 that present specific troublesome findings about aspartame safety, many dealing with highly technical biochemical issues, many by new teams. Only a few of these have been discussed on the Net or in any public media.

There has since 1971 been almost no collaboration between the hugely successful aspartame industry and its agents with any critics about safety issues. I myself, always giving full contact information on every post, have experienced only being ignored or dismissed, often with rude ad hominem rebuffs, with no to and fro professional discussion based on common purpose, reason, and evidence. Other information activists have helped and encouraged me since January, 1999, but none have collaborated with me in any creative, ongoing projects. They are similarly ignored, isolated, marginalized, or discredited by adroit public relations campaigns, including the prestigious, highly professional Ramazzini Foundation and its great leader, Morando Soffritti.

As a mature medical layman without relevant education, credentials, or experience, I have always carefully earned credibility by limiting myself to simple assessments of easily comprehensible research, citing in detail abstracts from PubMed, as well as the increasing percentage of online free full texts, and driving 60 miles from Santa Fe to Albuquerque to get other texts at no cost via the UNM Health Sciences Library, while focusing on the especially simple, obvious, and transparent issues of conversion of methanol into formaldehyde and formic acid in humans.

Since joining Citizendium 2006-03-27, I have noted every post by Larry Sanger, and was especially stirred by his "A New Politics of Information", a proclamation of existence of a new world democratic entity with professional standards for that greatest of human pleasures, competent mutual service.

Accordingly I have initiated my full participation in this evolutionary revolution by starting this aspartame article. I welcome all collaborators and all points of view in this great endeavor. We must succeed, for our success establishes a precedent and paradigm for world citizen service to establish reason and evidence based consensus on the wonderful opportunities offered by the accelerating panoply of interlinked global problems on all levels.

We, human citizens of Earth, rule. We, citizen souls in this evolving world appearance, serve.

Now, it is crucial to suggest certain opportunities here for the aspartame industry and its agents. The century-long tobacco debacle, still an ongoing tsunami of needless human misery and crippling social costs, is gradually being addressed effectively on a global scale. Rapidly rising standards of safety, benefit, integrity, and competent service are essential for personal happiness and success, as well as benign social life and corporate survival in our single human world.

The Net is an uncontrollable information environment, the very epitome of democracy. Free, reliable, democratically evolved information and consensus, based on passion to competently serve, to constructively reason, and to share evidence, among volunteer communities with high professional standards, are the ever-growing treasure of our race, and absolutely essential for not only the rudiments of sustainable survival, but of ever generous glory.

It is impossible for any corporate entity to ignore this surging tide of opportunity, or to limit or manipulate it for narrow ends by ignoble means.

The only realistic strategy is to join our mutual gold rush, quickly, actively, constructively, creatively, fully.

Citizendium needs you, and we all need Citizendium.

Citizendium needs feet on the ground, and funds in the coffers.

With regard to aspartame, there are multiple opportunities, including accepting stevia quickly as a global solution, and using its profits to help citizen clients who have incurred costs from any unsafe features of aspartame. Firms that actively explore the safety issues, for instance, by participating fully in this article, will more quickly come to a realistic perception of any genuine problems, and be in position to cooperate with other players for mutually positive remedies. There is no need to continue to plunge pathetically over the cliff blindly and stubbornly like tobacco.

Any firm that shares in the development of affordable means of removing all methanol from alcohol beverages, the main cause of hangovers, will enjoy a huge market.

If "medicinal brandy" is a real phenomenon, ie, if formaldehyde at low levels is far more harmful to many bacteria, viruses, and fungi than to complex human cells, there are huge opportunities that so far have not been explored:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/1052 DMDC: Dimethyl dicarbonate 200mg/L in drinks adds methanol 98 mg/L ( becomes formaldehyde in body ): EU Scientific Committee on Foods 2001.07.12: Murray 2004.01.22

http://europa.eu.int/comm/food/fs/sc/scf/out96_en.pdf

12 July 2001 Opinion of the Scientific Committee on Food on the use of dimethyl dicarbonate (DMDC) in wines (opinion expressed on 11 July 2001)

"...DMDC was evaluated by the SCF in 1990 and considered acceptable for the cold sterilization of soft drinks and fruit juices at levels of addition up to 250 mg/L (1) ...DMDC decomposes primarily to CO2 and methanol ...

The use of 200 mg DMDC/L would add 98 mg/L of methanol to wine which already contains an average of about 140 mg/L from natural sources. A healthy person metabolises 1500 mg methanol/hr without any physiological problems and this should be compared to the amount of up to 240 mg/L methanol in wine, treated with DMDC up to 200 mg/L. Metabolism of the amounts of methanol resulting from consumption of wine containing such levels is therefore well within the capacity of the human body. Thus consumption of even large quantities of wine would not pose any hazards from methanol.

Conclusion The formation of methanol and other reaction products following the use of DMDC for the treatment of alcoholic beverages and wine is similar to that formed in non-alcoholic beverages. Therefore the previous opinion on the use of DMDC for non-alcoholic beverages (1) is equally applicable to wines treated with DMDC."

It is possible that the SCF made a mistake, unaware of or disregarding the report by Jones, AW 1987 on methanol as the major cause of hangovers from alcohol drinks. Note the strong hint that methanol or formaldehyde may be reasonably safe medicines or preventives for a variety of infections. Only open-minded, mutually respectful global cooperation can sustain the social environment that will efficiently explore many such opportunities. Epidemiological studies on aspartame should be watchful for unexpected positive correlations with health.

These major reviews cover major developments since 1998:

http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2007_11_01_archive.htm Wednesday, November 14, 2007 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/1490 details on 6 epidemiological studies since 2004 on diet soda (mainly aspartame) correlations, as well as 14 other mainstream studies on aspartame toxicity since summer 2005: Murray 2007.11.20

http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2007_09_01_archive.htm Saturday, September 15, 2007 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/1472 bias, omissions, incuriosity = opportunity, aspartame safety evaluation, Magnuson BA, Burdock GA, Williams GM, 7 more, 2007 Sept, Ajinomoto funded 98 pages html [$ 32 781888262_content.pdf]: Murray 2007.09.15

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/1340 aspartame groups and books: updated research review of 2004.07.16: Murray 2006.05.11

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/1491 industry scientists praise aspartame safety and benefits in Paris on 2006.05.30, Herve Nordmann, Andrew G. Renwick, Carlo La Vecchia, Tommy Visscher, Jaap Seidell, France Bellisle, Adam Drewnowski, Margaret Ashwell, Anne de la Hunty, Sigrid A. Gibson, Alan R. Boobis: Murray 2007.11.18

In mutual service, Rich Murray

"Of course, everyone chooses, as a natural priority, to enjoy peace, joy, and love by helping to find, quickly share, and positively act upon evidence about healthy and safe food, drink, and environment."

Rich Murray, MA Room For All rmforall@comcast.net 505-501-2298 1943 Otowi Road, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87505

http://RMForAll.blogspot.com new primary archive

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/messages group with 113 members, 1,496 posts in a public archive

Methanol section

I have great interest in seeing this article develop. I'll try to help as much as i can. A tiny suggestion : I suggest to move the methanol section upwards. More later! I'll try to add new sections. Perhaps it will be a little clumsy, but this is only a beginning! --Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 14:44, 5 December 2007 (CST)

I decided to move the methanol section where i think it's best in order to see the table of contents.

Note: the subsection on fetal alcohol syndrome should go under alcohol-abuse related disorders, but I didn't want to mess with the data. I hope it helps, Rich. --Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 14:57, 5 December 2007 (CST)

To produce references in proper format quickly

I suggest the following tool: Wikipedia template filling http://diberri.dyndns.org/wikipedia/templates/?ddb=&type=pmid&id=&add_ref_tag=1 --Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 15:10, 5 December 2007 (CST)