Talk:Citizendium/Archive 1

Article Checklist for "Citizendium/Archive 1"

Workgroup category or categories	Computers Workgroup [Editors asked to check categories]
Article status	Stub: no more than a few sentences
Underlinked article?	Yes
Basic cleanup done?	Yes
Checklist last edited by	Larry Sanger 13:52, 14 March 2007 (CDT); Supten 22:43, 9 March 2007 (CST)

To learn how to fill out this checklist, please see CZ:The Article Checklist.

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Management roles vis-a-vis this article

I intend to sit out the actual writing of this article. Considering our Policy on Self-Promotion, I don't believe that I or any other person "closely associated" with CZ can edit this article. Who does that mean? I'd say: anyone listed as "Staff" under Personnel, anyone on the Executive Committee, any editorial personnel administrators, and any constables.

I am willing to serve as a topic informant of course. --Larry Sanger 15:31, 23 April 2007 (CDT)

If Sanger's Grace permits, I can develop this article.--Robert W King 13:03, 7 May 2007 (CDT)

WP & CZ

The problem with Wikipedia ultimately is that anyone at all could edit it. There are some people who are just malicious. They register with a random name, vandalize some pages, and if they get banned they could just register with another name. IP blocking doesn't work because

• most home internet users have dynamic IP
• most users on school/university/library computers have just one IP, meaning that if that IP is blocked other users who are not vandals are also blocked

While it's true that anonymous editors are not all evil-natured, a lot of energy is wasted on Wikipedia handling trolls and vandals. Energy that could've been used to improve article quality in general.

Citizendium is one step better by insisting that everybody registers with their own name, but even here there is no control whatsoever. Technically, it is still possible for someone to register as another name. We should implement email confirmations and IP check before each approval of new registration --Christian Liem 17:02, 8 December 2006 (CST)

We do require e-mail confirmation. I don't know what you mean by "IP check." --Larry Sanger 19:29, 8 December 2006 (CST)

He means checking to see which computer is being used. Nancy Sculerati MD 20:03, 8 December 2006 (CST)

Most online forums have a facility where administrators and moderators could see which members are online, what page they are reading/editing, and their IP addresses. This makes it much easier for them to avoid vandalism. If every Citizendium admin spends 10 minutes less per day protecting pages and blocking users, this time and energy could be used to write quality articles. I don't even have to mention how many Wikipedia admins have lost heart and given up because of troll actions. --Christian Liem 12:42, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Thanks for the clarification. Still, I don't know what constables would be checking for when doing an IP check to prevent vandalism and trolling. Would there be an IP address blacklist that constables would have to check against, for example? --Larry Sanger 13:12, 12 December 2006 (CST)

Using technology as our tool, the only suggestions I can think of are to:-

• limit scipts abilities to wreak havock using a [hashcash] system when contributing edits (javascript hashcash in the browser is fine)
• Sponsor a verification scheme of sending a couple of cents to a bank account (in their name) and ask the user how much arrived to verify their identity.

These ideas sound strange if you have not participated in this sort of verification before, as with paypal registered merchants and the like, but it is common now and as a double verification it could be funded by a token 'membership fee' of 10 cents each for new accounts, to keep the system liquid. Make gag prizes out of it and it can become an eccentric initiation ritual of the community rather than our steely-eyed stand against the vandals.

These are some technological deterrents that could be built to minimise wasted efforts, but the greatest solutions are still the social ones. Real names rock. How serious are you about it Larry? --Grant Sparks 07:21, 26 February 2007 (CST)

I think eventually we might have to encourage credit card verification as the default method of verifying identity, and perhaps we might require a virtual (not actual) "deposit." But any such thing would cost money we don't presently have. --Larry Sanger 09:22, 26 February 2007 (CST)

Unlike the United States, where I recently lived for 4 years (Austin, TX), here in Australia it is still uncommon for people who are under 20 years old to even have a credit card. They are becoming more adopted every day, yet a very large portion of our younger (and also senior) society do not own or use credit cards. My home has 8 people from 9 y/o to 91 y/o, and we have only 3 credit cards between us. Most of our friends are similar. We live 15 minutes from the city centre of our state capital.

I'd hate to see what it would be like for citizens in a third-world nation. Please folks, don't go down the credit card verification path. --Grant Sparks 03:07, 1 March 2007 (CST)

Of course we will always have alternate means of verification. --Larry Sanger 09:40, 1 March 2007 (CST)

I don't know if anyone noticed, but now WP is using Secure Login as now the main page is [[1]].

Hmm.

I ported the text from the Wikipedia article but I see how people might not like that as a 'matter of pride' sort of thing. So, was that a good idea? India Williams 16:44, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

Horrible idea.  :-) We are far more competent to write an article about ourselves than Wikipedia is. We just aren't as navel-gazing as Wikipedia, so we don't see that articles about ourselves, or our competitors, are actually that interesting. Besides, if we import any article from WP, we should do so with the intention of improving it immediately. See these guidelines.

We'll get around to doing a proper job before too long. --Larry Sanger 17:39, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

Needs work

This article really needs work... --Larry Sanger 11:06, 27 April 2007 (CDT)

A comment here was deleted by The Constabulary on grounds of making complaints about fellow Citizens. If you have a complaint about the behavior of another Citizen, e-mail constables@citizendium.org. It is contrary to Citizendium policy to air your complaints on the wiki. See also CZ:Professionalism.