Talk:Roast turkey/Archive 1

Mary, CZ articles are not written just for American readers

Imagine that you are, for example, a citizen of Sri Lanka, China, Croatia, Turkey (especially Turkey), Morocco, Peru, Iran, Malaysia or Ghana:

• What is Thanksgiving?
• What is a turkey ?
• What is a stuffed turkey ?
• What is stuffing ?
• What is defrosting ?
• What are leftovers ?
• What are degrees F ?
• What is a pound ?
• Who or what is the USDA ?

Mary, please remember that you are writing for a much wider audience than a small town in the desert area of Southern California. Just as one example, we are the only nation in the world that still uses the degrees F to measure temperature and pounds to measure weight. Also keep in mind that the are many, many people in the world who don't have access to frozen foods (and would not know what is meant by "defrosting") nor would they have access to grocery stores that sell "stuffing".

This article, as it now stands, is an excellent example of what is called an "ethnocentric" article ... and that is not good. Milton Beychok 02:30, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Milt for your insightful comments. I have asked Hayford to take a look at the article and he said he would. Also, I do realize the article was more US oriented but I haven't had time to go back to work on it. Today, was a family celebration so I've spent most the day cooking and cleaning. My thinking too is the article is about a roast turkey. Wouldn't it be wise to use links for stuffing, cranberry sauce, pumpkin pie as they are served as side dishes with the roast turkey which the article is about. And as always this is a wiki where anyone can edit any article at any time. And this being Citizendium a Food Science editor will ultimately edit the article too. BTW I have celebrated Thanksgiving in Canada, which should be today Oct. 11, and they celebrate much the same as we do. And for another comment try watching Mr. Bean as he celebrates Thanksgiving in a very unique fashion.Mary Ash 02:59, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

BTW I cook using farenheight not centrigrade therefore it is written that way. I can, and may, find the conversion charts but I am sure with your scientific background you could easily add that information. What do you think Milt?Mary Ash 03:01, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

In the context of a recipe it makes no sense to give centigrade values up to two digits after the comma when converting from Fahrenheit. This is pretending an accuracy that is not needed and not possible. --Peter Schmitt 09:14, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanksgiving and other matters

Milt I just checked and there is an active link to Thanksgiving which should cover the issue you addressed. There is also an active link for Christmas. I have added internal links to the side dishes so the links will explain each food item. As I wrote earlier the article is about Roast Turkey not Thanksgiving. Thanks!Mary Ash 03:14, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

move to a new title

I agree with Milt that the present article is far too much directed to the American audience. French people, after all, roast and eat turkeys, and they certainly don't do it on Thanksgiving. They also stuff them with chestnuts. Brits love them. I have Italian recipes for them. Mexicans roast them, then serve them with mole sauce. I won't say anything more about the article itself, but I think that by moving it to this new title 99.99% of the objections that Milt has raised will vanish. Hayford Peirce 04:05, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

If the new title makes you happy...a roast turkey is a roast turkey. You insert the defrosted turkey in the oven and roast it. Before you roast it you have to defrost it. I suspect defrosting and roasting turkeys world round are done the same way.Mary Ash 04:20, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Have you never heard of fresh, unfrozen turkeys? They actually exist. Hayford Peirce 04:39, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, and the article does include this information. In fact, I've cooked a few organic, fresh roast turkeys as my Dad is allergic to a lot of the preservatives found in frozen turkeys. The article does address how to defrost and roast fresh or frozen turkeys.Mary Ash 04:46, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

The article states: Fresh turkeys can also be roasted. Purchase a fresh turkey two days before you plan to roast it. Store the fresh turkey in the refrigerator until you are ready to roast it. Mary Ash 04:48, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Title Request

I searched the wiki to find out if there is a tag for a title request. I could not find one. I respectfully request the title be reverted back to Roast turkey. Roasting a turkey is the same no matter where you live. I will add the centigrade measurements later but I've been busy today. Thank you.Mary Ash 06:44, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

This is neither an article on "Roast turkey" nor on "Roast turkey (American)" -- it is a recipe that can be put on a Recipe subpage of such an article. --Peter Schmitt 08:21, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

My thought also. A good example is Pancake, which has a main article about the history and culture, and a separate Recipes tab for recipes. This is just a variation on cooking turkeys, so would be better as a subarticle of the article on turkeys, on Thanksgiving maybe, or perhaps American cuisine. David Finn 08:26, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Rewrote the intro and removed any comments about the side dishes

I rewrote the intro and removed any comments about side dishes. The article now stands alone about roasting a turkey. I was only trying to jazz up the article earlier and make it a bit more interesting. The article is now without the side dishes, etc.Mary Ash 06:52, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Left the term stuffing in the article for food safety purposes

I left the term stuffing in the article for food safety purposes. Also, Merriam-Webster defines stuffing to mean: ": material used to stuff; especially : a seasoned mixture used to stuff food (as meat, vegetables, or eggs)" This would include almost any known worldwide cuisine using stuffing such as rice, vegetables, couscous, potatoes, bread, nuts and chestnuts. A very simple stuffing would be tossing in onions, carrots, celery and seasonings. I think this covers the stuffing "problem".Mary Ash 07:05, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

A stuffing prepared separately is not a stuffing. For a stuffing it is important to be prepared together with the meat. How else should it develop its aroma? What is the safety issue with a (true) stuffing?? --Peter Schmitt 08:19, 12 October 2010 (UTC)