User talk:D. Matt Innis

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 Where Matt lives it is approximately: 15:27

D. Matt Innis

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Archive 1, Archive 2, Archive 3, Archive 4, Archive 5, Archive 6, Archive 7, Archive 8, Archive 9, Archive 10

How'd I do??

Using the photo upload feature was a snap. Just like wikiHow in usability. Added the photo and included

the attribution in the cutline. I'm not sure if that's the "right" way here or not. An editor can change

it, if desired. Thanks so much for all your help. See: [1]

Mary Ash 23:18, 25 July 2010 (UTC)Mary Ash

Archive

Hi Matt, you forgot to add an {{archive box}}! --Chris Key 14:47, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

PLEASE don't resign!

Matt, please don't resign. We need you and CZ will lose a major force for good if you resign. Please reconsider. Milton Beychok 05:16, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

I've already spoken to you privately. Whilst I hope you reconsider, I understand your reasons. Enjoy being an author again! --Chris Key 09:41, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Popping in to say "hi!"

I wish you had not resigned from your position. You are truly needed here. Thanks to you I stayed and have contributed a few articles. More will be on the way. Please keep in touch as you are the first, and only, net friend I've made here. Mary Ash 05:47, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Thought you'd like to read this

http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/John_E._Mack in reference to this article and how I am trying to learn how to do references without HELP from your editors. (unindent)I've done my best to add the citations you requested. I hope you are enjoying your laugh fest at my feeble attempts to learn how to do this. May you all enjoy your party at my expense of trying to learn and help. Mary Ash 02:40, 5 August 2010 (UTC) Mary Ash 02:44, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Just added this:

I DO UNDERSTAND THAT! Shouting intended. What I don't understand is how a wiki that desperately needs authors treats them so poorly. You've treated me like I am supposed to LEARN everything about your wiki INSTANTLY and I am sorry to say that's impossible. I am bright but not bright enough to learn in a second what took you guys awhile to learn. I did try to add the references and I am sure there'll be complaints about how the article should be deleted because it wasn't done right. There is no winning. May you all enjoy your little party of a few as it will remain that way until YOUR wiki learns to ENCOURAGE new authors rather than stomp on them until they desire not to help at all. Yesterday I was in a quandary as to what to do. I love writing and I would love to write here but it's nye impossible due to the hostile environment. So go enjoy your laugh at my expense and feel good about yourselves for running me off. I quit unless a constable (which I notified) takes action to improve my ability to contribute here. May you all do your happy, happy dance. Mary Ash 02:58, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

I tried copy and pasting wiki markup from another page as I have never done this. Two of your editors have refused to help after criticizing the article for lack of references. I did leave all references used in the exlinks. As for now I quit. I'm sorry I know how hard you tried to help me. I know how hard I tried to reach out to you guys. I'm sorry but it's not going to work out unless this become a less hostile environment. I did leave forum message to that effect too. On a positive note: Ro and Aleta both have been very helpful and encouraging. I will miss them as they represented the best of CZ. Mary Ash 03:10, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

I put one of your references in on the bottom of the page using the link that I put on your talk page. Take a look. You have to check off a few of those check boxes (including 'use the ref tags'), but just use trial and error and you'll be an expert in no time. I wouldn't bother asking some people to help. D. Matt Innis 03:15, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Some of the statements above are quite inaccurate. The issue was not markup, but the absence of bibliographic information. See Hayford's comment as well. Howard C. Berkowitz 03:29, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

(unident) Well I could write that's full of excrement but I won't. This is what I posted to the Mack talk page. I have included citations in the exlinks and I've written that all along. Posted to talk page: You can NOT expect someone to learn ALL that YOU know in two weeks. I've complied with every request made by CZ editors once I learned what was needed. I DO understand stylebooks and citations. I was required as a PAID journalist to LEARN the AP Stylebook as part of my job. I also kept a copy of my AP Stylebook at my desk for reference. NO ONE including YOU or anyone else has sent me to a link explaining how to insert the references. I HAVE included every reference used in every article written at CZ. They were in the exlinks and I notified the editors and anyone else where to find them. Nor has anyone bothered to show me HOW to insert the Wiki Mark Up the whole time I've tried to learn. As to the photo insertions, and I've done plenty at wikiHow and as a paid journalist, I gave appropriate credit. The source was listed along with a link to where the photo could be found. What I have discovered is some folks at CZ are friendly and helpful. Some are not. Some people's priority to criticize others seems to exceed their priority to have the site succeed.Mary Ash 04:42, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Left this on the Mack talk page

Hubby dearest has asked that I not contribute here after reading the comments left by some of the CZ contributors. He read the talk page comments and could not believe the comments made and lack of support offered by some of the key CZ contributors here.

My physical health is not the best and my trip through CZ has now lead me to call the doctor today. I'm sure my doctor will want to run a CBC and liver panel to evaluate my health.

Chris, Matt, Ro and Aleta thank you for being very encouraging and positive. CZ could use a few more people like you. I forgot to add the biggest reason I stayed as long as I did was because Matt was so kind to me. You are the shining examples of what wiki contributors should be. A good wiki creates a supportive environment and helps each other look good. For example: one wiki contributor may be good at editing and adding wiki mark up while another is good at writing. In a good wiki they would collaborate and help each other make their wiki the best it could be.

I am sorry it didn't work out. If my health improves I may return. Mary Ash 16:58, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

I look forward to creating an environment where people like you can work and actually have fun. Do keep an eye out, and don't forget to vote in the upcoming elections. D. Matt Innis 17:03, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Assistance with userpage

When I signed up I provided more personal information than I probably should have , especially as it was copied over to my userpage on creation. My userpage as it is now is fine, as I have removed the information, but obviously it is still avaiable in the page history. Could you please assist in rendering this personal information inaccessible? Or possibly pass this request to someone who can? The simplest methods that cpme to mind would be to delete the page and then recreate it with the current content, or to simply change the visibility of the older versions (there are only 2). Bradley Fleming 01:08, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually, Bradley, we could use a little more information in our bios! We want people to know who we are at Citizendium ;) Let me know if I can help with anything else. If I'm not available, feel free to ask anyone and I'm sure they will be glad to help. D. Matt Innis 01:24, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I will probably getting around to expanding the bio, but without some of the information that was removed. Bradley Fleming 01:44, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Photo Attribution

This morning, after feeling so much better, I realized why I was doing this. Any work done for hire and any work paid for by the US Government, or by an employee of the US Government, is considered work for hire or public domain. See: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.pdf Attribution automatically goes to the agency that paid for the work and since we all paid for the federal government photo it's considered public domain. That means the Mack article and the Osprey article were correctly attributed by me. It would be best to change the current attributions to the Harvard Press Office and US Government for those photos as they are now incorrect. It is nice to credit the photographer, if known, but the correct and presumably legal attribution goes to the agencies involved. I fulfilled my ethical and professional responsibility by notifying Citizendium of their error. Mary Ash 15:18, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Mary, if you will look closely at the photo of John E. Mack that you uploaded, the photo itself has attribution to Harvard Press at the bottom (in very small print). As for the the V-22 Osprey photo you uploaded, the current credit line (which I added as required by CZ) has both the U.S. Navy (which is the government agency) and their photographer's name (who took the photo). So all is well. Thanks for your comment and concern. Milton Beychok 17:51, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Petroleum naphtha is due for final approval today

Hi, Matt: Can you do the final approval or is that done only by Hayford? Milton Beychok 17:41, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Something strange with approval of Petroleum naphtha

Matt, although the Draft version of the approved article has the references intact, somehow the locked, approved section does not have the references. What happened? Milton Beychok 17:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Wow, that was weird! It totally removed the refs. I have just started using Apples Safari browser and it has some kinks. It could also be that I just added that WikiEd that makes the refs show up a different color. I'll bet that had something to do with it. I'll keep an eye out next time! I'm glad you caught it (and Hayford fixed it :) D. Matt Innis 21:12, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I was just talking to my computer guru friend about this strange occurrence (and other problems with browsers) and he said, "Every browser is like an interpreter -- it reads new text line by line and interprets what to do with it. So if one browser sees some text with two curly {s in it ahead of a SPACE, it does one thing, but MAYBE another browser, which is being rewritten by some gear-heads somewhere, looks at the SAME thing and decides that it doesn't like that SPACE and simply gets rid of it." I think that this must be what happened when you did the Copy and Paste of the text -- the browser decided that it didn't like those <Ref) things for some reason and just decided to ignore them entirely. Make sense? Hayford Peirce 22:16, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm just glad it got straightened out. Thanks all, Milton Beychok 22:29, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Used the reference maker link to write this article

I used the reference link maker to create this article. It took me about four hours to research and write this article. I used the reference tool you sent which made it so easy. Let me know what you think, if you have time. Thanks! Mary Ash 04:21, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Requesting Constable Assistance

Request Constable assistance concerning edits and accusations concerning this article: http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Schnitzel. Check the talk page and edit history and you will discover the continued harassment and demeaning behavior by one of your admins. Explain to me why I bothered to try again?Mary Ash 20:58, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi Mary, I'll take a look. D. Matt Innis 21:28, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

A comment here was deleted by The Constabulary on grounds of making complaints about fellow Citizens. If you have a complaint about the behavior of another Citizen, e-mail constables@citizendium.org. It is contrary to Citizendium policy to air your complaints on the wiki. See also CZ:Professionalism.

I'm sorry but I just needed to vent. Almost, well every article I have submitted, has been a battle. Mary Ash 01:17, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Apology accepted. You can vent all you want... just hit cancel instead of save ;)

Nobody promised that collaboration would be easy! The goal is to end up with accurate information and the idea is that the more heads the better. Of course, with more heads, that means more egos. The real challenge is fighting your own ego when someone makes a change that is actually better :) D. Matt Innis 01:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Your fix

Governing councils and ancillary positions - why didn't I think of that? Ro Thorpe 00:28, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Haha, you saw how many time I didn't think of that! D. Matt Innis 00:37, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the good Dyscalculia edits

There's a ton of information inside the PDF file referenced in the article. It's one of the best I read. I may work on it some more later but I needed a rest. The brain is tired. My eyes are swollen from too much computer use and I need a break. Thanks again!Mary Ash 03:27, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Sure, it was fun. I saw the PDF and agree it is pretty involved. I wish I had the texts where she got the information, too. Daniel is a psychology editor, I think. He might have a lot of good stuff. D. Matt Innis 03:35, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

A question

Matt, this is about the reviewing of requests for membership. When a request is put on "Hold" or is "Rejected", how long is it before they are completely expired and expunged from the queues? It seems as if that almost never happens. Milton Beychok 04:44, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

30 days for those on hold, 7 days for rejected ones. --Chris Key 05:22, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

A different question

I have been looking at the special pages, and the page for the shortest articles gives these results [2] - basically all the same, thousands of pages each containing one letter or number. I have read the discussion here and here and I still can't work out what they are for! Do you know? Cheers! David Finn 07:19, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

These pages are how David Yamakuchi wants to store chemical properties for use in property tables. They are used by Template:PTofE, see Periodic Table of Elements. --Peter Schmitt 09:24, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, although I am not sure that the periodic table is where all the short articles are coming from. Take the example of carbon, if you click every link in the little box for carbon in the periodic table template all the links go to an article of some sort. To get to the short pages you have to go to the properties page of the article about carbon where you find a table, and it is clicking on the elements of the table that leads you to the short articles, like this one and this also. So the short pages are, from what I can see, repititions of the details already in the table, and are unlikely to be expanded. So I was just wondering what they were for. Cheers. David Finn 10:14, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

David, I did not analyze the coding of this template. But if you look at Periodic Table of Elements in edit mode then you find that it uses many of these pages. Anyway, as you can see from the talk pages, David Yamakuchi vehemently proposed to use such single data pages for this purpose, and he created many of them. (I do not know if he completed this job.) Some of us (including myself) opposed this idea. --Peter Schmitt 10:26, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Wow, that is a lot of articles. I have not followed the development of the periodic table since the early days, but it looks like it had some discussion and was thought out to some degree. From a constable perspective, an editor would have to look it over and give some guidance as to whether any of it was unnecessary and needed to be deleted. It should be documented somewhere so that we don't accidently delete something important that we won't know the effects of until it's too late. D. Matt Innis 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

They were for use in the property tables for the articles about each of the elements as well. For example, look at Chlorine and its edit page. There was indeed a lot of discussion about them. Milton Beychok 16:06, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

It not only needs discussion from and editorial point of view (opinions were not very positive on it), but also from a technical point of view (efficiency). --Peter Schmitt 12:45, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

About new user Brian Kelly - UKOLN

Matt, please look at my comment about that new user's name on Chris Key's talk page. Thanks. Milton Beychok 16:28, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

I have already asked him Milt. --Chris Key 16:43, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks guys. It seems that we already have a Brian Kelly, so he had to make another choice. We're working on getting him a better name. D. Matt Innis 18:08, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't mean to be a pest. But why "B Kelly" instead of "B. Kelly" ? Milton Beychok 21:01, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

I am more surprised about seeing an even more ambiguous name apparently regarded as a solution for disambiguation. I would recommend to disambiguate user names (just like everything else) by way of parentheses, with UKOLN being a good choice in this case. --Daniel Mietchen 21:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, retaining the first name is preferable. But using a designation like UKOLN -- that may be valid for a limited time only -- is not a good choice. --Peter Schmitt 21:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

It was the name he picked. D. Matt Innis 22:13, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

But shooldn't a name -- the name with which he wants to be addressed -- be in the signature? --Peter Schmitt 22:40, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

What if it is already taken. Are you suggesting Brian K. I suppose that's a possibility. Maybe we would rather do that. D. Matt Innis 22:59, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

(unindent)Peter, using "the name with which (anyone) wants to be addressed" just opens the door to pseudonyms. Milton Beychok 23:05, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

I think pseudonyms or other additional identifiers would be fine if put in parentheses after the real name. --Daniel Mietchen 23:14, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Daniel, do you mean like: D. Matt Innis(Matt). D. Matt Innis 23:23, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

Milt, I think you know that I was not talking of pseudonyms. But the use of an abbreviated name does not work. It is at least inconvenient. Should we write "Hello, B"? Or are we supposed to look at his user page first?. Perhaps "B Kelly (Brian)" would work. (Is this what you meant, Daniel.) But should another "Brian Kelly" register, then a new idea would be needed. (Only a generic solution like numbers would solve the problem completely.) --Peter Schmitt 23:28, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

Brian Kelly is a very, very common name. Why not start numbering such members? Brian Kelly 1, Brian Kelly 2, etc. If we already have a Brian Kelly, then we could start with Brian Kelly 2.

Using UKOLN in parenthesis or in any other form strikes me as possibly being interpreted as promoting the UKOLN ... in other words, self promotion. Milton Beychok 23:36, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Numbers solve the problem in theory but not in practice - not everyone will find it easy to remember whether a particular comment had been made on the talk page of Brian Kelly 17, Brian Kelly 18, or perhaps Brian Kelly 42. Self-promotion could be a problem, but I am not sure it necessarily will: If Brian Kelly (Coca Cola) is editing the article Coke, then everyone will be warned, and if he goes on to edit Charles Dickens, it will most likely not be a case of self-promotion any more. But I haven't thought this through yet. --Daniel Mietchen 23:50, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

@Matt: If we were to have several users "D. Matt Innis", I would prefer to see the "D." expanded first, or some other identifier added. Re-using "Matt", which is already in the original user name, does not provide much disambiguation power. In connection with Milt's comment on Self-promotion, what about having users choose a neutral identifier from a list of basic words (like here), or possibly the title of an article that they particularly care about? In such a scheme, I could be Daniel Mietchen (Brain morphometry), and if that were already taken, I could opt for Daniel Mietchen (Surface-based morphometry). This would also be a bit more inviting in Recent Changes than names alone, and it would generally be more easy to remember than numbers. --Daniel Mietchen 00:00, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

(EC)The parentheses would be a precedent that we should think hard about. It might be part of the solution, but we need to be consistent about what we put in them. We need to allow enough variation that several identically named people can register. B. Kelly (Brian) probably doesn't leave enough variation. Currently, when registering, the software will not allow the creation of an application if the name is already in use. I believe it asks the user to try another one (Chris would know for sure). Whatever method we choose, we'd have to have a way to explain the options to them while they were registering. Surely there is a solution that doesn't involve numbers, but I guess that would be the most simple from a sign-up process. D. Matt Innis 00:06, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

@Daniel, basic words.. Why not just alphabet. Brian Kelly A, Brian Kelly B, etc.. Then we would call the Brian B, or Brian BL if there were enough. D. Matt Innis 00:10, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Persnally, I would prefer a short disambiguation. Letters seem to be a good possibility (the second gets A, etc., unless middle name or a variant of the name can be used) Of course, Daniel's argument (easy to confuse, may still hold). Article names could be interpreted as "owning" that article. If a "long" disambiguation is wanted, then perhaps place of origin could be used. --Peter Schmitt 00:18, 16 August 2010 (UTC)