Talk:Black Tape for a Blue Girl

YES that's proper capitalization

I've looked around at this a long time. I've seen it spelled black tape for a blue girl, Black tape for a blue girl, Black Tape for a Blue Girl, but Rosenthal when he writes about it capitalizes every word; and when it's abbreviated its BTFABG, so every word matters. And besides, he's the authority on his own projekt. Russell D. Jones 20:58, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

That's certainly a good point. I'm sure it won't be the last time this subject comes up. You might want to take it to the next level. D. Matt Innis 01:20, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

I dunno if it actually *is* a good point. Many famous writers, back in the days when they actually *wrote*, on typewriters, or by quill pens or whatever, no matter what wonderful stylists they were, were terrible spellers, for instance. It took a whole publishing house full of editors to clean up their stuff. Why should we trust Rosenthal here? It's like the Kingston Trio, in 1990 or so, copyrighting themselves as "The Kingston Trio", with caps on the "The". Absurd. Hayford Peirce 02:36, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Isn't that the point, that "The Kingston Trio" should be the ones that decide how the write their name? Do we write "the Mary Tyler Moore Show?" Now that would be absurd. D. Matt Innis 03:07, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Citizendium doesn't have a Manual of Style, and in the absence of one I use Hart's Rules and Chicago Manual of Style, and they state that definite articles and prepositions should always be in lowercase with the exception of titles within quotes ot italics. The "follow what the artist says" seems to be a dictum created on wikipedia, as no other print encyclopaedia I know of uses that, and even in this instance WP uses the title "Black Tape for a Blue Girl". Meg Ireland 03:15, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Also a good point, has anyone considered asking a workgroup editor? D. Matt Innis 03:31, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

It just so happens I emailed three of the more recent editors earlier this morning. Still waiting for a reply, hopefully soon. Meg Ireland 03:44, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Matt, there's a tremendous difference between having a formal title such as "The MTM Show" or "The Kingston Trio 25th Anniversary Show" and writing about the Kingston Trio in an article. For instance, we don't write, "Mary Tyler Moore starred in the "The Mary Tyler Moore Show". We write, "She starred in the "Mary Tyler Moore Show." Just as great writers who can't spell aren't allowed to have their books published with misspellings, we, at an ency., have to respect correct usage and grammar in our articles. Hayford Peirce 03:58, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

What about bolding, is that not also an exception, as, for example, in the lead section of an article: formerly known as The Harry Smith Show? I think that must be right. And bands? The Exes, formerly known as The Whys, ditto. But not, I think, unbold links: on the Mary Tyler Moore Show - though a redirect would be needed, wouldn't it, to avoid including lowercase "the" in the link: "the Mary Tyler Moore Show" (not so pretty)? Ro Thorpe 14:04, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Bolding is not an exception as far as I am aware. Meg Ireland 18:05, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that everytime I see "The Mary Tyler Moore Show", it starts with an uppercase "the" as does The Dick Van Dyke Show. D. Matt Innis 23:58, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, yes, of course -- if you're *watching* the actual show. And you see that on the credits. But if you pick up the NYT and read an article about, say, Boobsie Smith, it will say, "For many years she had the role of the cleaning lady in the Mary Tyler Moore Show." Trust me on this. Hayford Peirce 00:17, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm trying to trust you, but I keep finding things like these. And here. Even in the NYT. D. Matt Innis 00:56, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

As Groucho said to someone or other, "Who you gonna trust, me or your lying eyes?" Geez, don't those guys at the Times pay any attention to me, hehe? I'll have to do some checking of my own! Hayford Peirce 01:47, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

More facts: The NYT Manual of Style says this about "television programs": "In ordinary copy, quote their titles and capitalize principle words: "Issues and Answers," NBC's "Tonight" show, "The CBS Evening News." Show is an appropriate word to describe an entertainment broadcast, but program is preferred for news and public affairs." So, the conclusion that I draw from this, and other NYT usage is that we could have a sentence like: "Three years after The Kingston Trio Show made its debut on NBC, the Kingston Trio announced that they were burned out and were shutting down the show. It will be replaced by The Weavers, if the Weavers are able to find a new banjo for Pete Seeger." Now are you satisfied, hehe? Hayford Peirce 02:43, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Not sure. What you quote and what you did were two different things. The NYT says to "quote" the title using caps. So wouldn't it be more like Ro states (only using quote). Three years after "The Kingston Trio Show" made its debut on NBC, "The Kingston Trio" announced that they were burned out and were shutting down the show. It will be replaced by "The Weavers" if "The Weavers" is able to find a new banjo for Pete Seegar. D. Matt Innis 02:54, 13 April 2010 (UTC)