Talk:Schizophrenia

References

The "references" section built incorrectly. You should list all the books used in this article at the bibliography subpage. & then list all the notes like <ref>Name, Year. page number.</ref> within the article. And name the section "Notes"

(Chunbum Park 11:20, 5 January 2008 (CST))

I'm not sure I understand. There are no books used in the article, only journal articles. The reference style I'm following seems fairly standard with other medical articles. If I've missed something here, let me know. Richard Pettitt 00:19, 7 January 2008 (CST)

Oh, books, or scholarly journal articles. 1) ppl want in which page you find the info within the article 2) it takes too much space & gets too complicated to copy-paste author date title chapter title isbn publisher copyright etc. So... all the author title date isbn publisher thing goes on the bibliography page. on the "notes section" within the mainspace article you just have "name, date. pp.x". See Japanese invasions of Korea (1592-1598). (Chunbum Park 15:16, 9 January 2008 (CST))

From what I know, the usual convention is to list which pages the article is found within the journal, but not to list which pages within the article you've found the material. Secondly, the references style I'm using isn't much work at all. Using pubmed.com gives you a PMID number which I plug into a template [1] and it does all the work for me. (Believe me, I'm not about to do more work than I have to.) That's why I'm leaving things the way they are. :) Richard Pettitt 13:39, 18 January 2008 (CST)

WHO study

I believe a WHO study showed that people who had less access to antipsychic meds had a higher quality of life than those who could afford the meds. I'm assuming this is the "in a glass jar" effect of being on meds. I'm not advocating no meds, but i think this data is something that should be mentioned and is significant.

I also believe I read that 2/3 of homeless in Los Angeles are schizophrenic. Tom Kelly 21:39, 14 January 2008 (CST)

Ok, 2/3 seems too high. Tom Kelly 22:14, 15 January 2008 (CST)

I'm not familiar with this WHO study. Could you dig it up? Also, I added a study on the prevalence of schizophrenia among the homeless.Richard Pettitt

effect of war on schizophrenia

I believe this would be an important section to the article.Tom Kelly 21:47, 14 January 2008 (CST)

percentage of schizophrenics who chain smoke

can you say self medicate? One of those 2,000+ chemicals in cigarette smoke must be doing something we have not yet discovered. Tom Kelly 21:47, 14 January 2008 (CST)

I added something on cigarettes under the treatment section.Richard Pettitt

I know that one hypothesis, theory, and some preliminary data predict that another chemical in cigarettes may be the chemical they self-medicate with (because nicotine alone doesn't explain the smoking. I will ask around for more info. Tom Kelly 22:10, 15 January 2008 (CST)

Yes, tobacco contains monoamine oxidase inhibitors (harman, or something like that), and clinical research suggested that they are at least in great part responsible for reinforcement of the urge to self-administer tobacco. OTOH, MAOI can cause schizophrenia-like symptoms. There's definitely something to dig here, IMO. The research I have in mind was done in France. Gotta go. Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 13:24, 16 January 2008 (CST)

Neuropharmacology. 2007 May;52(6):1415-25. Epub 2007 Feb 20.

Tranylcypromine enhancement of nicotine self-administration.

Moreover, an increase in extracellular dopamine in the nucleus accumbens was detected, using microdialysis, following nicotine (60 microg/kg) injection in tranylcypromine pre-treated rats. Depending on the time of tranylcypromine pretreatment (20 or 1 h), MAO activity was decreased by 72% and 99% and nicotine intake at day 5 was increased by 619 and 997%, respectively. Taken together, these results indicate that in a stringent self-administration acquisition test, MAO inhibition increases the rewarding effect of low doses of nicotine, possibly via a dopamine-dependent mechanism.

Schizophrenia is an hyperdopaminergic disorder, IMAOs cause dopamine elevations; high dopamine contributes to the reinforcement of tobacco addiction; schizophrenics require lower doses of the IMAO in tobacco to get the reinforcing effect. IMO. Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 19:20, 17 January 2008 (CST)

Schizophrenia is a hyper- and hypo-dopaminergic disorder: mesolimbic and mesocorticol dopamine pathways, respectively. (I should probably get around to adding that to the article). So while what you're saying about nicotine's pharmacological effects are true, I believe that nicotine is consumed in an attempt to raise dopaminergic functioning to reduce negative symptoms, rather than for its pleasurable effects. Ideally I'd like an article that speaks more directly to the connection between nicotine's MAO inhibition action and schizophrenia before adding this to the article. Also, I've never heard of a MAOI-schizophrenia connection. I'd be interested in learning more if you could find that research you've mentioned.Richard Pettitt 13:39, 18 January 2008 (CST)

keyboard.problems...: Drugs of abuse, such as D-amphetamine, cocaine, morphine, or heroin, share the ability to cause addiction in humans and to increase release of dopamine (DA) in the nucleus accumbens...However, animal experiments indicate some discrepancies between the effects of nicotine and those of other drugs of abuse. For example, the stimulation of DA release in the nucleus accumbens after several nicotine injections remains controversial...One of the most striking differences between the effects of nicotine and those of other drugs of abuse concerns its locomotor effects. Although psychostimulants and opiates induce a substantial locomotor hyperactivity both in rats and mice, nicotine is a weak locomotor stimulant in rats and generally fails to induce locomotor hyperactivity in mice at any dose...Our data suggest that MAOIs contained in tobacco and tobacco smoke act in synergy with nicotine to enhance its rewarding effects. PMID: 16395299 Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors Allow Locomotor and Rewarding Responses to Nicotine sorry...Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 15:32, 18 January 2008 (CST)

but: Schizophrenia and functional polymorphisms in the MAOA and COMT genes: no evidence for association or epistasis. PMID: 12116182 Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 16:52, 18 January 2008 (CST)

still: Efficacy of selegiline add on therapy to risperidone in the treatment of the negative symptoms of schizophrenia: a double-blind randomized placebo-controlled study.... as you said (in an attempt to raise dopaminergic functioning to reduce negative symptoms) Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 17:05, 18 January 2008 (CST)

I added an article on the link between nicotine as an MOAI and schizophrenia. Let me know what you think. Richard Pettitt 17:24, 19 January 2008 (CST)

I provided some details and distinguished nicotine from other psychoactive tobacco components; it gave me the opportunity to mention the use of MAOI in schizophrenia (as you underlined above). I'm going to contact Tom Kelly to let him know that we have followed up on his advice. Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 13:16, 28 January 2008 (CST)

First person account, to fill the gap left by the DSM copyright restriction

Hello,

I wonder if we could use the moving story told by an investigator in the fields of paranoia and schizophrenia research, published in Schizophrenia Bulletin 2007 33(1):166-17: Peer-Professional First-Person Account: Schizophrenia From the Inside—Phenomenology and the Integration of Causes and Meanings, Peter K. Chadwick. See top of page for permissions. Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 19:06, 17 January 2008 (CST)

I think having case studies within mental health articles is a great idea. I'm not sure how we'd use this particular story, however, due to its length. Maybe as a signed article?

I'm going to look to see if I can find any short and concise case studies we can use... Richard Pettitt 13:39, 18 January 2008 (CST) Update: I`ve emailed a professor for use of a case report he wrote... hopefully he gets back to me soon. --Richard Pettitt 10:05, 23 January 2008 (CST)

No first person accounts in the article. I addressed this with Pierre-Alain on another article. --Michael J. Formica 17:12, 27 January 2008 (CST)

I'm sorry, I didn't realize you had made the official policy on this. Could you link to this discussion you're talking about? -Richard Pettitt 17:27, 27 January 2008 (CST)

First person accounts do not belong in an article, and you know it. They can be an external reference. They can be reference as case studies, as you suggest. However, they do not belong within the context of article content. This is an encyclopedia, not a textbook.

Further, stop being petulant. I made no policy, nor would I presume to do so. I am making a statement regards the quality of this publication. You are the primary in this topic area, I have acknowledged that. But you can't assume that since you didn't get your way at WP, a new platform will provide you with carte blanche for your personal interests/crusade.

These exchanges with you are beginning to sound very much like the ones that you used to have on Wikipedia. Remember, unklike WP, your presence here is a priviledge, as is mine. I am not going to pull a DreamGuy on you, nor engage you in that fashion, but, as the only consistently active Psych Editor on CZ, I am also not going to tolerate nonesense, and bad faith. --Michael J. Formica 08:07, 28 January 2008 (CST)

Image

As an editor, I have taken the liberty of removing the image originally attached in this article. I do not feel it is appropriate, and lacks clinical distance. Comments welcome. --Michael J. Formica 17:14, 27 January 2008 (CST)

Could you explain what you mean by "appropriate", and how a painting could possibly have clinical distance? Had you looked at the origin of the image, you would have found the Public Library of Science - Medicine used the image with the caption: "This painting is frequently used to teach undergraduates what a person with schizophrenia experiences". The peer-reviewers at the PLoS clearly believe it is appropriate, and I do as well.--Richard Pettitt 17:24, 27 January 2008 (CST)

Manifestly, this (pictorial) first-person account, like other first-person accounts, is appropriate. Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 01:02, 28 January 2008 (CST)

That's the point...the picture does not have clincial distance. If you can find a documented reference, rather than a caption in a textbook, I'd be fine with it. --Michael J. Formica 08:10, 28 January 2008 (CST)

40's

"although a variant of the disorder, identified clinically as paranoid schizophrenia, typically evidences itself in the early 40's, with little or no demonstrable symptom history."

Two concerns. First, since we're having some disagreement over the word evidence, perhaps we could agree on the word 'manifest'? Secondly, can we get a reference for how the paranoid subtype occurs in the 40's? I'm not familiar with any sources that state this.--Richard Pettitt 17:46, 27 January 2008 (CST)

You're not familiar with any source because you're a third year undergraduate and haven't had any clinical experience. I'll let you find the resource, but I would suggest you start by looking at the Psychiatric Archives.

Further, as I've noted, the word evidence used here is correct in that it is a verb in clinical jargon. Manifest would work.

Richard: I want you to understand that I am being consistently hard on you because I believe that you are a smart, capable young man with potential. You are, however, at the sufferance of "knowing-it-all" becuase you read it, and you lack any substantive clinical experience -- neither of these things is your fault, it's your age -- and, so, you fall prey to not always thinking for yourself, and taking a position just because you can. You're better than that. Blessings... --Michael J. Formica 07:58, 28 January 2008 (CST)