Talk:Linux (operating system)/Archive 2

Linux compared to Microsoft Windows and Mac OS X

Is having the logo in the infobox consistent? If you look at the articles on the other two OSes they both have screenshots, not mascots. I understand that there are a whole plethora of desktops we could show off (GNOME, KDE, FDWM, WindowMaker, etc etc) but don't you think we should pick one and go with it, for consistency's sake? --Eric M Gearhart 12:57, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

That's a good point. Wikipedia has Tux at the top. I've honestly never thought of that before. Either way is fine with me. I'll go ahead and revert it to how it was before. --Joshua David Williams 13:02, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

This kind of collaboration is what I sorely missed at Wikipedia :0) --Eric M Gearhart 13:04, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

That's one of the problems I have with that site. Heh. I finally figured out how to revert to a previous version via the links :D --Joshua David Williams 13:07, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

If I get around to it I'd like to add other OSes such as Amiga OS, BeOS, etc and I think it'll make sense to follow the same infobox-style pattern we've got with Linux, Windows, and OSX --Eric M Gearhart 13:12, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

This infobox is somewhat weird, because there's actually no default user interface, and latest stable release is supposed to be something like "OS X v10.4" or "Vista", not the kernel version. --Rion 17:56, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

Just because there's no default UI doesn't mean that the majority of people don't use it. Should we have a screenshot of a command-line instead? Also re: kernel version: Yes but what is the alternative? The only other option would be to list versions of distros... and then which distro should we use? Ubuntu would be a decent candidate if we went that route... Hmm. Dunno what the best option here is --Eric M Gearhart 23:14, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

Perhaps we should take a screenshot of the Linux kernel after booting like you said - no distribution whatsoever. This can be done with an emulator fairly easily. I'll do that so we can see how it looks. As for the version, definitely the kernel IMO. --Joshua David Williams 23:33, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

I just edited Linux/Draft. That's one way of doing it too I suppose. Maybe the two or three most popular distro versions? --Eric M Gearhart 00:07, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

What's the draft article for? --Joshua David Williams 00:12, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Just to give folks like you an idea of what it can look like before it goes live lol. Also I edited Linux kernel and added the infobox, with the "Default user interface" being Command line. Should the Linux/Draft article be the main article you think? --Eric M Gearhart 00:20, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

The main article we edit until our work is approved you mean? --Joshua David Williams 00:23, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

No no no lol. I just created the draft article to get an idea of "if the thing looks right" before I threw it up on the main page. We can create Draft articles if we want (see Computer/Draft, although they're not the "official" Draft articles until Linux gets approved by editors and protected --Eric M Gearhart 00:41, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Hi guys, we can't create /draft pages without the article being approved first. It will really get complicated when we try to do the final Approval on this article. I have to delete the Linux/Draft. Remember, once you place this article up for approval, you can keep editing it and the changes made after the approval date on the template won't show up on the final product, but they will end up in the /draft page. Keep working!! Looks great. --Matt Innis (Talk) 17:32, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

Okay, I moved it to User talk:Eric M Gearhart/Linux/Draft. Once your finished with it, please put it up for speedydelete. Thanks. --Matt Innis (Talk) 17:37, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

OK yes I think Josh and I just didn't know the official policy on this --Eric M Gearhart 17:49, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

No problem, been there, it's a case of the blind leading the blind:) See CZ:Approval Process. Thanks. --Matt Innis (Talk) 17:54, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

Style issues

In addition to Dr. Sanger's guidance above about adding "history of Linux, different distributions, the philosophy behind it, the sociology of its development, and so forth," check out CZ:CZ4WP#Get_ready_to_rethink_how_to_write_encyclopedia_articles.21 (and the links in the text there) and CZ:Article_Mechanics#Narrative_coherence_and_flow for some ideas to make this article even better. —–Stephen Ewen 04:05, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

First picture on the article

I like the picture of a Linux desktop at the top of the article (though not, as noted below, details in a table below it). I feel the caption of the picture should be simpler for a non-technical person to understand. Maybe something like "A Linux desktop with windows open." And then, over on the picture page itself, there should be details like "GNOME desktop on Ubuntu Linux 6.10". Please realize that a non-techie reader will not have a clue about: GNOME, Ubuntu, or version numbers--at least not until they dig into our excellent articles! :-) Pat Palmer 09:27, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

This is true, and I do see your point. My only argument to that (if you wanna call it that) is that each of the OS articles should be consistent. Linux should look like Windows should look like OS X should look like BeOS, etc. etc.
I do agree with what you're saying though... just a "Here's a typical screenshot of Linux" would be clearer to the non-techie users --Eric M Gearhart 10:55, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

I agree with Pat. After seeing what the article looks like with the command line, I suggest we get a better screenshot than the mockup I made (hehe.. yes, it has to be a successful boot :P) and put it at the top of Linux kernel, but use a typical screenshot (not distribution-specific.. eg. no Ubuntu or SUSE logos), preferably with Beryl (and please, could we refrain from uploading Vista clones? LOL). --Joshua David Williams 11:02, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

OK but here's the flamewar question of the day: do we put up a screenshot of a GNOME dekstop or a KDE desktop? I'd vote for Ubuntu, simply because it's the most popular distro out there right now (even though I personally have run KDE since it was a beta) --Eric M Gearhart 11:12, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

I concur, though the question remains of whether leaving any trace of which distribution it is would be a problem. --Joshua David Williams 11:18, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Table at top is distracting; my vision for alternatives

Glad to see the continued good work on this page! Please consider moving the table entries which are accumulating at the top of this page (except for the picture) to somewhere within the body of the article itself, or better yet, to sub-articles full of more detail. For example, the names and versions of distributions would belong, in my opinion, on the Linux_distribution page, and not on the Linux page at all (except for one example perhaps). I feel that the table text distracts from the article text, and furthermore, all that detail that soon may intimidate a non-technical user who has happened upon our page in hopes of getting oriented about what Linux is. This top-level article should be the overall orientation for a not-too-technical reader, and many related articles (such as Linux_kernel or Linux_distribution can then become as "geeky" as we like.Pat Palmer 09:27, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

The main reason this was done was to have a consistency in the look of operating system articles in general. If you take a look at Linux, Microsoft Windows and Mac OS X they all look consistent in this aspect. --Eric M Gearhart 10:36, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Haven't gotten to it yet, but I will go and argue for it to be changed on every OS page. It's a holdover from Wikipedia, and it looks like a manual, and I would like to abolish it. These top-level articles should, in my opinion, provide a non-technical person with an elegant introduction to the overall concepts, pointing off to increasingly detailed subarticles. Above all, the top level article needs to help a reader get oriented in an entire region of knowledge. And somewhere in the Citizendium policy recommendation, they even say "we'd like to get rid of info boxes and summary tables".Pat Palmer 12:54, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

I second Pat's movement. --Joshua David Williams 12:56, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

After giving this a considerable amount of thought, I now disagree. The table exists to give more experienced users the information they need quickly. The text is still there to help beginners, regardless of what the table says. --Joshua David Williams 17:53, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

Use of "latest" and similar words

Whenever something is said to be "latest", I think it's more helpful if you specify as of WHEN it's "latest". Readers cannot easily tell when an author added something that says, for example, "latest distribution". And even if it's the latest today when we add the information, but is it going to be the "latest" one year from now? I don't think we can count on this kind of information remaining current, so please do say "as of April 2006" or some such.Pat Palmer 09:27, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

I'm archiving the older stuff above

To keep it easy to read in here, I'm archiving the stuff at the top. I'm not changing or removing any material, and I'll try to keep it all in the order in which it occurred.Pat Palmer 09:38, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Linux and "popularity"

Here's a statistic that I looked up for our edification:

2006 forecast for market share of software operating systems, by platform:

    % share forecase for 2008     

    Windows       40%     
    Unix          29%     
    Linux         15%     
    Others        16%

FROM: InfoTech Trends http://www.infotechtrends.com/
report from 1Q 2005, accessed on 4/8/2007

I suggest we make our here case without superlatives that may seem like we're trying to sell to the unconvinced. As such, I'm trying to avoid saying things like "popular" about Linux although it is, of course, wildly popular among those who work with it all the time and enjoy that.Pat Palmer 10:37, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

I think we should avoid predictions of the future for this topic. I believe it was the same website that once claimed that Linux would have something like 20% of the desktop market by 2007. --Joshua David Williams 11:08, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Yeah, "damn lies and statistics". I just don't want us to sound zealous. Of course, I am zealous in reality. I love all computers, yes every single kind, and I'm passionate about it, and I have to censor myself constantly :-) Pat Palmer 12:56, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

We've also got to keep in mind that the (neutral point of view) stick isn't going to come along and bash us in the face on every edit (like at that other Wiki-based encyclopedia). We've gotta balance writing "exciting prose that grips the reader" with not leaning too far into the "sales pitch" side of it. I know, I tend to do this too. Passion is passion. :) --Eric M Gearhart 13:04, 9 April 2007 (CDT)