Talk:Criticism of Holocaust denial: Difference between revisions

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imported>Martin Baldwin-Edwards
imported>Richard Jensen
(Replacing page with 'moved to Holocaust denial talk page')
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moved to [[Holocaust denial]] talk page
 
There's not need for an article copying the (faulty) structure of the way things are in Wikipedia. [[User:Ori Redler|Ori Redler]] 08:28, 8 February 2007 (CST)
:I admit it was mostly a reminder to work on the article later. How would you suggest we proceed? Just a single article on Holocaust denial and include the criticism on it?--[[User:Lise Sedrez|Lise Sedrez]] 00:18, 9 February 2007 (CST)
 
I'll start by saying that I'm not an expert on this subject (my experience is limited to a BA seminary work and some articles in popular press) so my comments should be taken with more than a pinch of salt.
 
That noted, I think the stuff in WP is there anyhow, so we can always go back to it if and when we think it's good and helpful for our purpose. Since we do not want to start off trying to "jump over our belly-button" this naturally leads to trying to write a good article about [[Holocaust denial]]. The current one, also from Wikipedia, seems rather horrible, as it lacks any discrimination between what's important and what's not. listing [[Robert Faurisson]] alongside a common internet troll like [[Matt Giwer]] as "notable holocaust deniers" is typical, as is the total lack of historical prespective in this article. Of course, there may be a legitimate need for an extended article about [[Criticism of Holocaust denial]], but that should be determined once we have a good, solid start with [[Holocaust denial]] and feeling that there is a real need for it. I think that when we copy from WP, we also copy the whole history of this article and the "politics" of the articles, with which we should not be burdened. [[User:Ori Redler|Ori Redler]] 18:26, 9 February 2007 (CST)
 
I have to agree with pretty much everything you've here said, Ori. --[[User:Larry Sanger|Larry Sanger]] 18:32, 9 February 2007 (CST)
 
:Agreed, too. I'd like to add that any articles that are Holocaust related are going to among those that we simply ''must'' get right in terms of neutrality. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 18:40, 9 February 2007 (CST)
::Okay. Maybe the best solution is then to delete these articles (which I had pretty much thought as placeholders, anyway), and I will try to come up with a good article on Holocaust denial by next week. --[[User:Lise Sedrez|Lise Sedrez]] 18:59, 9 February 2007 (CST)
 
it was part of an on going discussion - editing last week. Do not delete please. [[User:Robert Tito|Robert Tito]] | [[User talk:Robert Tito|Talk]] 14:45, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 
== denial of holocaust ==
 
May I remind you all that in the vast part of the EU denial of the holocaust is a criminal offense, liable for at least 5 years in prisonment. [[User:Robert Tito|Robert Tito]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;<span style="background:black">&nbsp;<font color="white"><b>[[User talk:Robert Tito|Talk]]</b></font>&nbsp;</span> 10:41, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 
:May I remind you that Internet websites are not bound by every law of every country in the world? --[[User:Larry Sanger|Larry Sanger]] 15:51, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 
::That doesn't make my statement not true. Besides many europeans do feel very strongly about it. Too bad the USA is the largest source of nazi and fascist propaganda in the world at the moment. But then that is a personal feeling, shared by many from my part in the world. [[User:Robert Tito|Robert Tito]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;<span style="background:black">&nbsp;<font color="white"><b>[[User talk:Robert Tito|Talk]]</b></font>&nbsp;</span> 16:21, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 
:::Robert, I don't understand why you are reminding us of this fact. Rest assured that I shall make a point of avoiding denial of the Holocaust if and when I'm in that vast part of Europe in the future. However, what are the implications of this information with regard to us editing this article?&mdash;[[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]] 18:18, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 
::::A considerable implication could be the outright banning of citizendium from EU based internet service providers.--[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 09:12, 28 April 2007 (CDT)
 
:::::The very fact that a large number of European states -- including those historically responsible for the Holocaust -- have chosen to outlaw alternative versions of history is, in itself, something which needs to be included in thia article. Provided that the article itself does not support Holocaust denial -- and it should not, under Citizendium policy -- I cannot see on what legal basis EU internet providers could prevent access to Citizendium. If, however, they should choose to go down that road, I venture to suggest that it would be of great benefit to the public profile and reputation of Citizendium. However, I emphasize that the content of this article needs to be very carefully checked for independence, fairness and accuracy. --[[User:Martin Baldwin-Edwards|Martin Baldwin-Edwards]] 09:30, 28 April 2007 (CDT)
 
::::::I agree with Martin on this point. Moreover, even if there were a chance, I can't imagine that Citizendium would want to cooperate with this sort of censorship.&mdash;[[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]] 14:42, 28 April 2007 (CDT)
 
==Neutrality==
 
I changed the first sentence of this article. "Many [[historian]]s and commentators '''criticise the claims of [[Holocaust denial]]." Because, it presented a paradox. In an effort (I'm sure) to appear balance and even-handed, implies that there is an actual debate among the scholars of the world over whether or not the Holocaust occurred. This is not true, and it is important to make the situation clear. [[User:Nancy Sculerati|Nancy Sculerati]] 18:28, 8 June 2007 (CDT)
 
== merge into Holocaust Denial ==
 
I suggest we merge this into the stub [[Holocaust denial]] [[User:Richard Jensen|Richard Jensen]] 03:22, 25 November 2007 (CST)
::Agreed.--[[User:Martin Baldwin-Edwards|Martin Baldwin-Edwards]] 06:05, 25 November 2007 (CST)

Revision as of 02:47, 26 November 2007

moved to Holocaust denial talk page

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