CZ Talk:Biology Workgroup/Archive 1

I suggest that most of the articles on specific organs and specific animals not be considered as top priority articles. There are just too many,DavidGoodman 23:17, 24 November 2006 (CST)

I think this is a good point. What level do you think we should attempt to cover with respect to animals; stopping at the level of mammal (as currently written in the zoology section)? Instead of all the plant hormones have one introductory article? Subcellular components are important enough to have their own artilces in my opinon. Why don't we start pruning down by striking out the ones we think are too general? At least this way we can see the updated list and easuily visualise what is being cut out. Chris Day (Talk) 03:35, 25 November 2006 (CST)

Since it will be considerably harder to edit the general articles, I've revised this to a mix, indicated in bold, taking into account t what the people here already have said the want to do, and having blocks of articles.Just a suggestion to think about. DavidGoodman 01:03, 26 November 2006 (CST)

David, is there a distinction between the italicized and bold articles in your last series of edits? Chris Day (Talk) 00:58, 27 November 2006 (CST)

Sorry, I had meant to change them all to bold, and have now done soDavidGoodman 16:54, 27 November 2006 (CST).

large intestine or colon/rectum?

After scanning this list, 3 words jumped out at me relating to the GI tract. While it is important to have articles when people type in Large Intestine and Small Intestine, I think it is important to add more anatomical words to these articles with links to the articles written on the colon, etc. I rarely think of the "large intestine," but which part of the colon has the problem. Post secondary education, how often do you use the word "large intestine?" I may be completely biased after many years of science education but I feel like people start using word like colon and rectum a lot earlier than we think. In general, general articles should be FULL of links to specific articles. General articles should be written at a lower reading level than anatomical articles, however, these general articles must contain links to more scientific articles relating to the issue. Don't underestimate the ability of readers to figure out what words mean, so try write articles at an easy to read, yet with advanced vocabulary (linked). User general information template

User workgroup information template

See CZ:Userinfo System for usage instructions.

Useful links for Userinfo System development edit

Instructions: CZ:Userinfo System - CZ:Userinfo System Documentation Group and workgroup tables: CZ:Group Status (demo) - CZ:Anthropology Workgroup/Status (demo) Group table technical innards: Template:GroupInfoTable - Template:GroupInfoTableLine - Template:GroupInfoTableCell - Template:GroupInfoTableCellLinked - Template:WorkgroupInfoTableCell - Template:WorkgroupInfoTableCellLinked Individual table (userplan): User:Larry Sanger/Userplan (demo) - Template:Userplan-all - Template:UserplanAllToWorkgroup (used in the latter) - Template:Userplan-all-workgroup - Mediawiki:Common.css Group data and examples: Template:UserinfoSystemUsers (everybody listed) - Template:UserinfoSystemUsers/Anthropology (anthro workgroup members listed) - CZ:Userinfo System Workgroup Member Lists (list of workgroup user lists in the system) - Template:WorkgroupCodeToFullName (interchanges workgroup codes and "pretty names" of workgroups) Individual data examples and templates: Template:User/Larry Sanger (demo of individual data page for all of CZ work) - Template:User/Larry Sanger/Philosophy (demo of individual data page for a workgroup) - Template:User - Template:User/Template1 (general data) - Template:User/Template2 (workgroup data)

Edit- I still use "large-" and "small intestine" weekly - I was exaggerating quite a bit. User general information template

User workgroup information template

See CZ:Userinfo System for usage instructions.

Useful links for Userinfo System development edit

Instructions: CZ:Userinfo System - CZ:Userinfo System Documentation Group and workgroup tables: CZ:Group Status (demo) - CZ:Anthropology Workgroup/Status (demo) Group table technical innards: Template:GroupInfoTable - Template:GroupInfoTableLine - Template:GroupInfoTableCell - Template:GroupInfoTableCellLinked - Template:WorkgroupInfoTableCell - Template:WorkgroupInfoTableCellLinked Individual table (userplan): User:Larry Sanger/Userplan (demo) - Template:Userplan-all - Template:UserplanAllToWorkgroup (used in the latter) - Template:Userplan-all-workgroup - Mediawiki:Common.css Group data and examples: Template:UserinfoSystemUsers (everybody listed) - Template:UserinfoSystemUsers/Anthropology (anthro workgroup members listed) - CZ:Userinfo System Workgroup Member Lists (list of workgroup user lists in the system) - Template:WorkgroupCodeToFullName (interchanges workgroup codes and "pretty names" of workgroups) Individual data examples and templates: Template:User/Larry Sanger (demo of individual data page for all of CZ work) - Template:User/Larry Sanger/Philosophy (demo of individual data page for a workgroup) - Template:User - Template:User/Template1 (general data) - Template:User/Template2 (workgroup data)

The large intestine article is actually linked adequately - however the writing is choppy User general information template

User workgroup information template

See CZ:Userinfo System for usage instructions.

Useful links for Userinfo System development edit

Instructions: CZ:Userinfo System - CZ:Userinfo System Documentation Group and workgroup tables: CZ:Group Status (demo) - CZ:Anthropology Workgroup/Status (demo) Group table technical innards: Template:GroupInfoTable - Template:GroupInfoTableLine - Template:GroupInfoTableCell - Template:GroupInfoTableCellLinked - Template:WorkgroupInfoTableCell - Template:WorkgroupInfoTableCellLinked Individual table (userplan): User:Larry Sanger/Userplan (demo) - Template:Userplan-all - Template:UserplanAllToWorkgroup (used in the latter) - Template:Userplan-all-workgroup - Mediawiki:Common.css Group data and examples: Template:UserinfoSystemUsers (everybody listed) - Template:UserinfoSystemUsers/Anthropology (anthro workgroup members listed) - CZ:Userinfo System Workgroup Member Lists (list of workgroup user lists in the system) - Template:WorkgroupCodeToFullName (interchanges workgroup codes and "pretty names" of workgroups) Individual data examples and templates: Template:User/Larry Sanger (demo of individual data page for all of CZ work) - Template:User/Larry Sanger/Philosophy (demo of individual data page for a workgroup) - Template:User - Template:User/Template1 (general data) - Template:User/Template2 (workgroup data)

"Partial list of potential editors"

I'm inclined to suggest that you delete that list of editors. Does it serve any purpose? --Larry Sanger 14:26, 15 December 2006 (CST)

It was copy and pasted from the old high priority article page. The purpose there was for people to hiughlight the articles with which they had expertise or had an interest in editing. Now the forums are up and running, i agree, it is probably less useful. Chris Day (Talk) 15:02, 15 December 2006 (CST)

"Microbiology"

In medical school we study microbiology as a subject before we dive into "systems." Microbiology includes Immunology (both the basics, but this is mainly a response to invasive micro organisms/microbials), Bacteriology, Virology, Mycology. I added this to the Draft Biology/draft page. However, the work group home page is above my "hacking" ability to edit. If someone else could edit this it would be great. I know that mycology can also fall under botany but in terms biological health science, it is a pathogen worth studying when studying microbiology. Or maybe there should be a page for Biology relating to Human Health linked on the biology page if these classifications are not appropriate for the main bio page. Discuss. I will not be on citizendium again until after finals. -Tom Kelly (Talk) 14:03, 16 December 2006 (CST)

The problem of overlapping sphere will always be a problem and something we should not worry about too much. With regards to the edit on this home page, are you wanting virology to be listed under microbiology instead of having its own section? Chris Day (Talk) 14:52, 16 December 2006 (CST)

I think it is usual to teach the general aspects as part of the microbiology course. But viruses are not organisms in the sense all the rest of biological objects are, from an evolutionary point of view they stand entirely outside the evolutionary tree. For that matter immunology is only part of microbiology for convenience of teaching--it is actually a part of physiology, or conceivably pathology. I'm not sure where we should best put it. DavidGoodman 23:36, 19 December 2006 (CST)

I remain unhappy with immunology as a part of microbiology, except in terms of its historical development. Though the immunochemistry of viral proteins and bacterial polysaccarides remains important in practical medicine, the even more important part is cellular immunology, with its implications for neoplasms.--and I do not see how that can possibly considered microb iology in any sense of the word. DavidGoodman 03:39, 1 January 2007 (CST)

I like this definition of microbiology - "The branch of biology that deals with microorganisms and their effects on other living organisms." (from dictionary.com) However, I'd just go one step further and say their effects, including immunological response, on other living organisms. Viral toxin effects are just as important as the immune response stimulated by microorganisms. The only reason I put immunology in with microbiology in the first place is because some medical schools teach immunology when teaching microbiology. Open any medical microbiology text and you'll see a large immunology section. Every section on X type of microorganism talks about the immunological response. -Tom Kelly (Talk) 14:21, 13 January 2007 (CST)

I liked how the microbiology article is being subdivided in its links. For Medical microbiology, it is appropriate to have mycology, bacteriology, virology, and immunology included. I'd have to ask some microbiologist how they would classify it in a more general way. Take a look at my revision here and see what you think - http://pilot.citizendium.org/wiki?title=Biology/Draft&diff=prev&oldid=100013668

Also, how and the heck to you get items on the draft page put into the approved version? Sadly, I did like how fast one was able to edit wikis on wikipedia. I have a feeling that once we have a ton of approved articles, it will be hard to do little edits like adding links here and there. -Tom Kelly (Talk) 15:01, 21 December 2006 (CST)

I'd say just keep editing the draft version. Actually, if things go correctly, the draft version will often be more complete than the approved version. When to update is the question; how many changes before it is worthwhile? I'd suggest we all work on the Biology today, a survey of the science of life section and get it to be as good as it can be. So far it has had very little attention. In theory, however, we could update the biology aticle with your edit right now if you have made all the changes you think are needed. Chris Day (Talk) 15:41, 21 December 2006 (CST)

Use of radioactivity in biology

Dear Biologists, the chemists are working on a nuclear chemistry page at which an overview of all things radioactive is being written. I am aware that in modern biology that ³²P is used in DNA work. PLease could one or more of the biologists visit the page and add some content about the use of radioisotopes (and stable isotope tracers) within modern biology.Mark Rust 03:37, 30 December 2006 (CST)

Key needed for Font in list of To-Do Articles

please make a key that explains what the Bold articles, regular font, and strike-through articles mean on the to-do list. -Tom Kelly (Talk) 20:50, 12 January 2007 (CST)

The basic list was the biology section of a list of basic articles from WP.

The bold ones should be the ones that are currently in our top priority category. Some were added here that were not in the original list.

The strikethroughs are the ones from the list that it was considered might well be deferred.

The initials were an approximate idea of interest from the early days: "the following people have simply declared their interest in various topics; such a declaration does not mean, in the slightest, that they are claiming control over an article." Some have been added since, but of course it still does not mean control.

The purpose of the list was to get some idea of what lay before us. All of this was just a way of getting started and anything desired can be changed or added or struck out. or changed to or from bold. (If you're doing that please also add or remove the category for top pritority in the live articles--I am not sure how consistent we've all been in indicating these changes). DavidGoodman 03:16, 13 January 2007 (CST)

Astrobiology and Mycology

Astrobiology is listed as a subfield of Biology. Others, however, think of it as a subfield of Astronomy. In fact, the major research in this field is done by astronomers.

I think Astrobiology is a so interdisciplinary Science that it does not fit under neither Astronomy or Biology, but as a full separate field. Currently, not only biologists and astronomers are doing pioneering work on the field, but also geologists, geophysicists, oceanographers, climatologists, even philosophers.

I also think that Fungus should not be under Botany, but under a separate subfield, Mycology.

Sairjohn 11:17, 26 January 2007 (CST)

Interesting points. With regard to astrobiology, i think you could probably say the same for biology. Basically cross school collaborations are the norm these days. Engineering, statistics, computer science, geology and oceanography are all intertwind with biology. I see no harm in it being in biology and astronomy. I would think creating another field might be unnecessary otherwise our top hierarchy becomes too broad.

With respect to mycology, it is there now since the traditional botany courses still cover that topic. Obviously from a phylogenetics perspective it is not a sensible fit. I have no problem breaking it out as its own discipline. Chris Day (Talk) 12:47, 26 January 2007 (CST)

Definitely mycology should not be a subfield of botany. Ian Ramjohn 13:08, 26 January 2007 (CST)

Bear in mind that that list we have on the biology workgroup homepage is not even close to complete. The bold are ones that rose to the top as important articles that CZ needs. Those that have been struck out are ones that are much less important. The goal of the list is not to be all inclusive but rather as a starting point for which to prioritize articles for CZ. The list hierarchy was just for convenience. Other users feel free to edit it in anyway they see fit.

The list was originally created before the top article category was created. We are probably better off using that category to identify the articles we consider important. and archive the current list here. Any thoughts? Chris Day (Talk) 13:19, 26 January 2007 (CST)

OK, I am understanding that this list was intended just as a draft, since there will not be categories in CZ.

By the way, I've done the preliminary work on the Astrobiology article. It is basically a cut-pasted-reordered edition from the NASA's Astrobiology Roadmap – but don't worry, it is not copyrighted, check it out here. Sairjohn 14:11, 27 January 2007 (CST)

You still need to cite the source though. Ian Ramjohn 16:32, 27 January 2007 (CST)

Goal. 5 main articles being edited. 5 new articles to do. Recruit new experts

"we need more work horses." I think I read that somewhere. I agree we need more editors. Here is what I suggest. I don't have time to write an article right now but I think there are experts out there who do have the time. We should think of 5 main articles that are currently being edited in "Hard" Biological Science and the next five most important articles to write. Then lets go recruit say 15-20 experts that are specialists in that field per article (so 10 times 15 is 150 new experts). If we recruit that many asking them to write X article, we should get a descent result. Your thoughts? -Tom Kelly (Talk) 20:43, 30 January 2007 (CST)

Naming issues

If we accept that scientific names should be applied to all article titles on biological organisms (barring certain exceptions), then perhaps it's time to move a few steps in that direction. Obviously, there are a few articles to rename (e.g. Snake => Serpentes, Tiger => Panthera tigris), but then I think it's also important that we come up with an effective way to prominently display the common names for these articles. The idea of simply mixing a few common names in with the article's introduction never seemed right to me, so I came up with one possible solution, which I've applied to Vipera berus for example. However, I think a new common names template would really be the way to go: something that we can easily be modify as better ideas for the presentation emerge. --Jaap Winius 13:38, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

This hasn't been decided yet. Before we start standardizing this, we really need to get the input of the Editorial Council, which should be starting quite soon. I think it's far more likely that either we will use common names with scientific names in parentheses, or else just common names. --Larry Sanger 14:06, 25 March 2007 (CDT)