CZ Talk:Forum

Moving the forums to the main wiki

If you'd rather discuss this on the forums :) - see here.

The issue of whether to move these forums to the main wiki has popped up occasionally over the last few years, and the recent decision by a Council member to cease using them has brought the topic up again. Some of us did investigate this about a year ago but the Council of the day never really drove it forward, and progress stalled. The idea was to move the boards to the main wiki (see this test) and use a Google Group to allow non-members to comment.

The two main problems with a move, as far as I can see, are Constabulary moderation and the possibility of cluttering up the 'recent changes' list with lots of discussion posts. Regarding the first, the forums were envisaged as a space for more controversial discussions in which Constables would exercise more leniency. Also, they would stay relatively hands-off because they are not supposed to get involved in content matters. If we moved to the wiki, by default the existing rules would apply, and Constables would have to monitor discussions more closely. In the past, there have been some tremendous rows which have been kept off the main wiki because people had the forums to let off steam. Perhaps the Council would need to set up new rules to cope with the change of environment (or alternatively, perhaps those arguments would never have happened if those discussions had taken place on the main wiki).

From an administrative point of view, it would be easier to reduce the forums to a read-only archive, closed to new members, until such time as a more permanent archive space is found. The software for the wiki and the forums is completely different, meaning two databases have to be maintained in parallel. The move would also reduce the number of places where new information can be posted, thus simplifying its dissemination. I am sure that there are plenty of CZ wiki account holders who don't even know that the forums exist - there are 728 forum accounts, but about 9,000 main wiki accounts (2nd figure excludes about 500 one-word-username accounts, which were created under self-registration and cannot legitimately be used).

For the last year or so, I have been creating forum accounts for new members at the same time as creating wiki accounts. The forum accounts require e-mail activation and I can tell you that over half of those new accounts remain unactivated. Most others have never posted. So, the forum is not working to attract new members or generate many new discussions.

What do users of the forums think? Would you be prepared to go over to the main wiki?

Peter Jackson, on the forum thread, says he thinks someone said such a move would save money. I have the same recollection, but, as I find the forums cumbersome and can never remember how to use them, I'm commenting here. Ro Thorpe 18:37, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

I favor moving the forum boards to the wiki. A few questions:

Would it be a help or hindrance to have a separate namespace for the forum on the wiki?

Will the forum on the wiki be able to meet the Management Council rules still in effect:

2010-007, 2 November 2010: http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Management_Council_Motions_Passed/Archive_2010

(1) The Management Council will have a publicly accessible forum board which is read-only to anyone not on the Management Council. It will be used for the majority of discussion between members of the Management Council.

(2) The Management Council will have a private forum board which is hidden from anyone who is not on the Management Council. It will be used for sensitive discussions between members of the Management Council. The definition of 'sensitive discussions' is defined elsewhere.

(3) The Management Council will have a public forum board on which any Citizen may post, reply and view topics. It will be used to allow Citizens to publicly communicate with the Management Council.

(4) The Management Council will have a private forum board on which any Citizen may post, however they will only see topics that they have started. It will be used to allow Citizens to privately communicate with the Management Council.

Also, will the Managing Editor section be able to duplicate what we now have on the Small Machines Forum?

Assuming the Citizendium Council moves to maintain forums on the wiki, can you estimate the time involved in developing the operational forum? Anthony.Sebastian 22:24, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

(1) would have to be dealt with by locking the pages and giving Council members the appropriate powers (sysop or whatever). (3) is easy. (2) and (4) would have to be modified, replaced by email or something. Peter Jackson 08:49, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank you to everyone for having this discussion in this wiki space.Christine Bush 23:06, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes, the only way to stop non-Council members from posting on Council pages would be to give all Council members sysop rights, which is probably undesirable. A clear warning at the top of each page would probably suffice, however. As for technical changes, the only thing I can't do is create a special 'Forum:' namespace, which is necessary to allow users to filter the 'Recent Changes' list and avoids a problem with Talk page links. It would be a few hours' work to create the forums here and reduce the old site to read-only. What cannot be done is import the existing threads there onto this wiki, because the software is different. John Stephenson 16:24, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Move under way

The Council has now passed a motion to move the forums to the main wiki. Don't expect the move to happen overnight! :) The first stage, which I've started, is getting the technical changes necessary to establish a new 'Forum:' namespace, which will ensure various links work correctly and also allow the wiki-based forums to be more easily searchable. (This requires work by someone with access to the actual installation, not just sysop rights - I only have the latter.) Then I can get to work on the new forums as and when I can. John Stephenson 23:21, 18 September 2014 (UTC)