Template:CharterVote2/20/Discussion

< RETURN TO THE MAIN PAGE

• Each year, half the members of the two Councils shall be elected.
• For newly elected members, the term of office shall begin on first of January for the Editorial Council, and on first of July for the Management Council.
• Any Citizen may nominate and support one or more candidates for a Council.
• A Citizen who is supported by another Citizen becomes a candidate by declaring the intention to serve for the whole term.
• Any Citizen accepting a nomination shall retreat immediately from any involvement in the election's organization.
• The candidates collecting the most votes shall be elected.
• Citizens who received votes may serve as reserve members.
• A Council member who becomes inactive or unavailable for a period of 90 days, shall be replaced by a the reserve member receiving the next highest votes.
• In the absence of reserve members, interim replacements may be appointed by the Council concerned.
• Any Council may propose a change of its size by an even number of members; this proposal shall be subject to a referendum held together with the next election.

change to:

• Each year, half the members of the two Councils shall be elected.
• For newly elected members, the term of office shall begin on first of January for the Editorial Council, and on first of July for the Management Council.
• Any Citizen may nominate and/or support one or more candidates for a Council.
• A Citizen who is supported by another Citizen becomes a candidate by declaring the intention to serve for the whole term.
• Any Citizen accepting a nomination shall retreat immediately from any involvement in the election's organization.
• The candidates collecting the most votes shall be elected.
• Citizens who received votes may serve as reserve members.
• A Council member who becomes inactive or unavailable for a period of 90 days or more, shall be replaced by a the reserve member receiving the next highest votes.
• In the absence of reserve members, interim replacements may be appointed by the Council concerned.
• Any Council may propose a change of its size by an even number of members; this proposal shall be subject to a referendum held together with the next election.

D. Matt Innis 19:54, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

In the final point, "any" should be "either". There are only two, after all. Otherwise agree. -Joe Quick 01:42, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Of course! Then it would be:

• Each year, half the members of the two Councils shall be elected.
• For newly elected members, the term of office shall begin on first of January for the Editorial Council, and on first of July for the Management Council.
• Any Citizen may nominate and/or support one or more candidates for a Council.
• A Citizen who is supported by another Citizen becomes a candidate by declaring the intention to serve for the whole term.
• Any Citizen accepting a nomination shall retreat immediately from any involvement in the election's organization.
• The candidates collecting the most votes shall be elected.
• Citizens who received votes may serve as reserve members.
• A Council member who becomes inactive or unavailable for a period of 90 days or more, shall be replaced by a the reserve member receiving the next highest votes.
• In the absence of reserve members, interim replacements may be appointed by the Council concerned.
• Either Council may propose a change of its size by an even number of members; this proposal shall be subject to a referendum held together with the next election.

D. Matt Innis 11:47, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Before any more progress is made on this Article, please see this.

---

Following our discussion below, I have added the following: Russell D. Jones 14:12, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Section One: Election Cycle

1. Each year, half the members of the two Councils shall be elected. Elections for the Management Council shall be completed by June 25 of each calendar year. Elections for the Editorial Council shall be completed by December 24 of each calender year.
2. Elections shall be run by an "Elections Committee" appointed by the Management Council. Any citizen, including officials but excepting members of the Management Council, may serve on the elections committee.
3. The elections committee shall maintain all nomination and ballot pages on the Citizendium.
4. For newly elected members, the term of office shall begin on first of January for the Editorial Council, and on first of July for the Management Council.

Section Two: Nominations

1. Any Citizen may nominate and/or support one or more candidates for a Council.
2. A Citizen who is supported by another Citizen becomes a candidate by declaring the intention to serve for the whole term.
3. Any Citizen accepting a nomination shall retreat immediately from any involvement in the election's organization.

Section Three: Elections & Reserve Members

1. The candidates collecting the most votes shall be elected.
2. Citizens who received votes may serve as reserve members.
3. A Council member who becomes inactive or unavailable for a period of 90 days or more, shall be replaced by the reserve member receiving the next highest votes.
4. In the absence of reserve members, interim replacements may be appointed by the Council concerned.

Section Four: Council Size

1. Either Council may propose a change of its size by an even number of members; this proposal shall be subject to a referendum held together with the next election. If passed, the new seats shall be filled immediately from the pool of reserve members as above for inactive or unavailable council members.

(added missing "the" in Section 1). I can live with this, but I'd like to clarify an issue.

In a volunteer organization, I can think of reasons why an official might expect to be unavailable for 90 days -- travel, illness, etc. Should there be a mechanism where such an official might, in advance of the unavailability, declare the situation and have a reviewed, revocable handoff to a reserve member? This could avoid situations where we are all wondering about the status of an individual. --Howard C. Berkowitz 15:00, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

A temporary leave of absence sounds reasonable to me. Write one up. Russell D. Jones 15:09, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Let's try some language. Add to Section 3: "A Council member may request a temporary leave of absence, during which the member will be replaced by a designated reserve member. Such leaves shall not exceed 120 days in a year; the member may also request shorter leaves of absence, the sum of which do not exceed 120 days. The relevant Council shall approve the request."

My own feeling is that it benefits us to keep an active rota even with shorter leaves; the reserve member selected by the regular member is apt to continue policies of the principal. --Howard C. Berkowitz 15:13, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm fine with Russell's text and Howard's addition. --Daniel Mietchen 15:17, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

I saw another glitch. Article 25 says that the MC is to certify the result of the election two days after the election. So if the EC election closes Dec 24, the MC must act by Dec 26. This isn't going to work. How about Feb 1 and August 1 as the election dates? Russell D. Jones 15:52, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

We're in volunteer county here, so holidays do not have the same meaning as in professional contexts, but the problem you mention could be solved by changing the dates in the first point to June 21 and Dec 21, respectively, or even some more days ahead of the holidays. --Daniel Mietchen 16:14, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Daniel, it sounds like we have Europe and North America covered. Any reason to believe other continents have different significant holiday seasons? Howard C. Berkowitz 16:18, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It's not that when I'm not at work I'm not on CZ, it's more the opposite. That during the holidays, with more stuff going on, folks might not have the time to meet CZ deadlines. Why don't we change the fourth point to reflect these dates so that the whole election is over and officials are seated before the holidays. Russell D. Jones 17:29, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

@Howard - I checked a number of sites for traffic fluctuations over the year, and July/August as well as December/January seem to stick out a bit, though not by much. So we can basically go for any date (my preference would be for Jun/ Dec 21 , i.e. the solstices). Whether that would be the date of announcement of the election results, or the official "seating" of elected candidates, does not matter much to me. @Russell - why do you think it is better to have them seated before these holidays? Who starts a new position with vacation elsewhere? --Daniel Mietchen 11:05, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, we're a progressive society! Why don't we start with a vacation?! Russell D. Jones 13:34, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Russell's text (assuming dates are worked out) and Howard's addition. I vote to have the solstices as announcement of election results; it'll be easier for me to remember. :) -Joe Quick 18:19, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Sure, go with the solstices. Lots of political jobs start with a vacation; the question is when and if useful work begins. The public interest might be best served, however, if some politicians stayed on vacation. Howard C. Berkowitz 18:24, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

(undent) I think this is what is now agreed:

Section One: Election Cycle

1. Each year, half the members of the two Councils shall be elected. Elections for the Management Council shall be completed by June 21 of each calendar year. Elections for the Editorial Council shall be completed by December 21 of each calender year.
2. Elections shall be run by an "Elections Committee" appointed by the Management Council. Any citizen, including officials but excepting members of the Management Council, may serve on the elections committee.
3. The elections committee shall maintain all nomination and ballot pages on the Citizendium.
4. For newly elected members, the term of office shall begin on first of January for the Editorial Council, and on first of July for the Management Council.

Section Two: Nominations

1. Any Citizen may nominate and/or support one or more candidates for a Council.
2. A Citizen who is supported by another Citizen becomes a candidate by declaring the intention to serve for the whole term.
3. Any Citizen accepting a nomination shall retreat immediately from any involvement in the election's organization.

Section Three: Elections & Reserve Members

1. The candidates collecting the most votes shall be elected.
2. Citizens who received votes may serve as reserve members.
3. A Council member may request a temporary leave of absence, during which the member will be replaced by a designated reserve member. Such leaves shall not exceed 120 days in a year; the member may also request shorter leaves of absence, the sum of which do not exceed 120 days.
4. A Council member who becomes inactive or unavailable for a period of 90 days or more, shall be replaced by the reserve member receiving the next highest votes.
5. In the absence of reserve members, interim replacements may be appointed by the Council concerned.

Section Four: Council Size

1. Either Council may propose a change of its size by an even number of members; this proposal shall be subject to a referendum held together with the next election. If passed, the new seats shall be filled immediately from the pool of reserve members as above for inactive or unavailable council members.

I'll agree. Howard C. Berkowitz 18:49, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Changed the function of the dates to be when the results are announced (as per Joe above), and agree with that. --Daniel Mietchen 14:10, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Actually, now that I read it in context, I think the dates need to refer to the time by which the election must be completed. If the results have to be announced by the 21st, then the election must be completed prior to the 21st, but since there are two days to announce, the actually guideline for completion is sort of fuzzy. Since completion by the 21st would require announcement by the 23rd, I think that's better. What do you think? -Joe Quick 14:37, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

That was Howard's original formulation. Changed it back, and still agree. --Daniel Mietchen 14:54, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Agree. Russell D. Jones 15:38, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Why, in section 1, point 2, are members of the Management Committee not allowed to participate in the Elections Committee? -Joe Quick 15:51, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

That's normal parliamentary procedure. You never have the executive run elections (for obvious reasons). Russell D. Jones 15:38, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

But this is the MC delegating its own responsibilities, isn't it? They can't be involved once they ask someone else to help? Can members of the EC be involved when some of the seats are up for election? -Joe Quick 15:46, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, any member of the EC, Constabulary, ME, or Om can sit on the elections committee (I think I'm seeing your point), as well as authors and editors. However, the expectation is that the Constabulary would run elections, but members of the constabulary expressed concern that running elections all the time would sidetrack them from their other responsibilities. So, the MC can appoint the constab to run elections if that's what the constab can do, but if the constab doesn't then the MC has flexibility to appoint others. It would be rather odd, if the MC ran its own election, don't you think? (Just as odd if the EC ran its own election). Do you have a suggestion? Russell D. Jones 15:56, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Clearly, a nominee can not and should not sit on the elections committee. Russell D. Jones 15:58, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

It seems like that's all that's necessary. -Joe Quick 00:40, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree. D. Matt Innis 23:13, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Agree with the simple statement "no candidate shall be on the election committee." Alternatively, one could adopt the old Chicago or Jersey City motto, "vote early and often." Howard C. Berkowitz 23:52, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

I'll agree with that. Russell D. Jones 00:09, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

I also cut the phrase about shorter leaves of absence as needless. Russell D. Jones 00:09, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

---

So is this where were at? Russell D. Jones 00:09, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Section One: Election Cycle

1. Each year, half the members of the two Councils shall be elected. Elections for the Management Council shall be completed by June 21 of each calendar year. Elections for the Editorial Council shall be completed by December 21 of each calendar year.
2. Elections shall be run by an "Elections Committee" appointed by the Management Council. Any citizen, including officials but excepting nominees, may serve on the elections committee.
3. The elections committee shall maintain all nomination and ballot pages on the Citizendium.
4. For newly elected members, the term of office shall begin on the first of January for the Editorial Council, and on the first of July for the Management Council.

Section Two: Nominations

1. Any Citizen may nominate and/or support one or more candidates for a Council.
2. A Citizen who is supported by another Citizen becomes a candidate by declaring the intention to serve for the whole term.
3. Any Citizen accepting a nomination shall resign immediately from any involvement in the election's organization. The Management Council may appoint a replacement.

Section Three: Elections & Reserve Members

1. The candidates collecting the most votes shall be elected.
2. Citizens who received votes may serve as reserve members.
3. A Council member may request a temporary leave of absence, during which the member will be replaced by a designated reserve member. Such leaves shall not exceed 120 days in a year.
4. A Council member who becomes inactive or unavailable for a period of 90 days or more, shall be replaced by the reserve member receiving the next highest votes.
5. In the absence of reserve members, interim replacements may be appointed by the Council concerned.

Section Four: Council Size

1. Either Council may propose a change of its size by an even number of members; this proposal shall be subject to a referendum held together with the next election. If passed, the new seats shall be filled immediately from the pool of reserve members as above for inactive or unavailable council members.

---

Agree. Howard C. Berkowitz 00:32, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Agree. Joe Quick 14:45, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Agree. Russell D. Jones 15:11, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Agree. Added two "the"s above. D. Matt Innis 16:50, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Agree. --Daniel Mietchen 21:50, 4 August 2010 (UTC)