User talk:Aleta Curry/Archive 2

Oct 07-Dec 08

Aleta Curry

Current talk page

Archive 1, Archive 2, Archive 3, Archive 4, Archive 5, Archive 6

Names

Thanks to the fragmented discussion, it came up here once again: http://mail.citizendium.org/pipermail/cz-biology/2007-October/date.html Kim van der Linde 17:18, 25 October 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for the link. Aw, Kim, it's just too hard....Aleta Curry 19:47, 25 October 2007 (CDT)

Tallong

Are you from Tallong? The photos make me want to visit. --Joe Quick 22:42, 28 October 2007 (CDT)

I am! Come over any time! It ain't fancy, but we can make you welcome!Aleta Curry 22:52, 28 October 2007 (CDT)

Well, it's a bit of a walk from Chicago, but I have had a yearning to visit Australia for some years now. Let me think of a way to tie it into Latin American studies so I can get somebody else to cover my expenses. Maybe indigenous rights? Australia is really interesting from that perspective. --Joe Quick 23:03, 28 October 2007 (CDT)

Photos

If you compile a list of all photos you've uploaded to CZ I will fix them ;). --Robert W King 08:10, 31 October 2007 (CDT)

This should work. Chris Day (talk) 08:48, 31 October 2007 (CDT)

Robert, Bless you my son. Chris, you rock! How did you do that?! I've been wondering how to keep track of photos I've uploaded and was about to bug Stephen.

By the by, Robert, since Joe is going to make his way out here eventually, you could fly or swim over, too, and take lots of pictures of bugs and wildlife and things!

Aleta Curry 14:57, 31 October 2007 (CDT)

Buy me a ticket and I'm there. ;D --Robert W King 16:24, 31 October 2007 (CDT)

From my first bestseller or first million--it's a promise!  :) Aleta Curry 16:27, 31 October 2007 (CDT)

Ooh! We could all celebrate our Nth approved article in Tallong! --Joe Quick 00:53, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Fine by me. Other draws: my husband is really, really, nice and I'm a good cook. Just make sure you like dogs, cats, horses and wildlife! (And don't freak out with SNAKES and BUGS!) Aleta Curry

Mini foxies

© Photo: Mini Foxie Club of Australia
Add image caption here.

This is all set to go. Stephen Ewen 00:41, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Also, you need to get emails for Image:Judell_Lucky_-_tri-colour_Miniature_Fox_Terrier_Bitch.jpg and Image:Jackaroo_Mini_Foxie.jpg, please. Stephen Ewen 01:30, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Isn't Lucky's photo covered in that original permission e-mail? I would think so, since that was first photo I uploaded. But not to worry; I'll take care of all in any case. Aleta Curry 16:34, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

It's not covered. See the email. Stephen Ewen 21:24, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Move

Pedigree_papers drastically needed the adjective. Stephen Ewen 21:06, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

No problemo, except of course now the link I left Jeff doesn't work. Did you move the subpages, too, Speedy Gonzalez? Aleta Curry 21:10, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Oh my, what a mess :-) What were yooou thinking :D --Matt Innis (Talk) 21:15, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

What? Where? WhadidIdo now??? Aleta Curry 21:19, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

I moved the subpages. Just leave a message at Jeff's talk. Stephen Ewen 21:23, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Cool. Not that serious--I'm sure he's got it! Aleta Curry 21:26, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Now I'm totally mixed up. There is a papers(disambig) and a paper(disambig)?!Jeffrey Scott Bernstein 21:32, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Hehe, I liked the Guantanimo Bay part :D ... whatamess --Matt Innis (Talk) 21:45, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Yes, there should be two disambig pages for paper and papers. --Robert W King 21:46, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Okay, that's part's done--and it's not a mess, you meanie! P Aleta Curry 21:49, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Wait, I'm befuddled. Some of the "paper(disambig)" info can also fit on the "papers (disambig)". Should I move it all so the information is available on both disambig. pages?Maybe someone else should evaluate it all; I'm dizzy.Jeffrey Scott Bernstein 21:52, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

LOL at Jeff. Yes, I think both disambigs should be combined. Stephen Ewen 21:59, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Okay, one at a time:

We have

paper, paper (disambiguation) (for singular), papers (disambig for the plural), and pedigree papers. That should do it. Aleta Curry 21:55, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Frustration

Alack and alas -- my work has consumed me today as I have a conference presentation next week. I may did start an article called Frustration. Grrrrr!! Thanks much for looking for me though Aleta - I really missed the party. The Odd Couple indeed!-- who said an encyclopedia couldn't be camp!?!! I will be back... --Ian Johnson 18:07, 7 November 2007 (CST)

Well, we certainly missed you, but all the vodka, not to mention Hayford's cocktails, took the edge off! See ya next month! Aleta Curry 21:07, 7 November 2007 (CST)

new friend

I found you a friend! User:David_Joseph_Butler See where he's from? Sheesh, I think I'm channeling my mother... --Joe Quick 16:50, 9 November 2007 (CST)

Hey, cool! I'll drop him a note. 'Course, NSW is pretty large! But who knows--we might be neighbours! Aleta Curry 20:08, 11 November 2007 (CST)

Dull thorns.

--Robert W King 21:45, 12 November 2007 (CST)

That took me a minute--LOL. What soured you on them?

Listen, when you come out here, come in Spring (this time of year) and you can see a wild rose in bloom. Very pretty. Not nearly as showy as the others, but with a sweet, understated beauty. But what do I know? I was one of those odd little girls who pulled up the flowers of weeds and proudly presented them to my mother....Aleta Curry 21:51, 12 November 2007 (CST)

Plantstinctionist!!!!!! --Robert W King 21:53, 12 November 2007 (CST)

Stop! I just made one of those loud, snorty laughs and dribbled coffee onto my keyboard! Aleta Curry 21:57, 12 November 2007 (CST)

Approvals

I will email the Biology editors to ask for some action from them. Approvals should be a priority, --Martin Baldwin-Edwards 06:25, 13 November 2007 (CST)

Allrighty, then. Aleta Curry 13:40, 13 November 2007 (CST)

Film, TV, etc.

So, Aleta, we've been agreeing with each other for several months now about the need for a film workgroup. What can we do about it? Is there any evidence that the new workgroup requests page is leading to action? (Oh, and regarding dancers and opera singers in film: touché!) --Eric Winesett 22:07, 14 November 2007 (CST)

Yes, true--it *is* getting to be a bit like "You're right, Eric". "Thank you, you're right, too, Aleta." "Thank you, and you're right as well"....

What can we do about it? Well, we can do what Kim Van der Linde did with the Tree of Life thing, which is to simply start adding the category as if there is one already. I think we might put it to Larry for at least tacit permission, first, though.

Another point: I guess we could use "needs workgroup", too? I use this for fashion, e.g. Is it disingenuous to use it here? Aleta Curry 14:24, 15 November 2007 (CST)

I think in this case "needs workgroup" would just be replaced with Media and/or Visual Arts by someone not privy to our little plan. (I've actually considered applying for editorship in visual arts just so I could deal with this issue more officially. As far as I know, there are currently no active editors in Visual Arts.) -Eric Winesett 22:16, 15 November 2007 (CST)

Is the new requests page leading to action? I think it *will*, eventually, but is being deferred because of--for lack of a better term--more pressing matters. I know one could easily argue that there is little more pressing than the organisation of articles, and I mentioned this when the Core Articles initiative was started, and Larry's response was that many things might change anyway once the workgroups were sorted out. I and others have also raised the matter of workgroups at other times, and it is my feeling that everyone, including Larry, thinks this is important, but there are only so many hours and all that.

Dancers and opera singers in film-- :) Well, it's not something that would be the first thing which came to mind, is it?

Aleta Curry 14:04, 15 November 2007 (CST)

p.s. - do you *really* sign on, check your watchlist, make your edits, pick a subject and write an intelligent stub in less than 10 minutes??? It's a bird...it's a plane...it's SuperEric!! Aleta Curry 14:12, 15 November 2007 (CST)

Well, no. I'm actually a slow writer because I just can't hit that save button until I'm happy with every word—even for a stub. But the point was that I only have time to write stubs, even if someone else could write a developed article just as fast. (Once I created an article with subpages and spent a while writing a stub on its main page. When I saved for the first time, I got an edit conflict. Another Citizen had written a nanostub and commented "Don't forget to create the main article!") -Eric Winesett 22:16, 15 November 2007 (CST)

Yeah, I'm like that, too. But having lost a few masterpieces, I'm starting to reconsider. Actually, that's a lie--I really *can't* let people see my first edits--so I usually start in Word and copy over! Aleta Curry 22:36, 15 November 2007 (CST)

So where do you stand on the specifics? Film by itself, film and TV together, or some other variation? -Eric Winesett 22:16, 15 November 2007 (CST)

I don't think I can answer that until I know what the exact parameters of the workgroups are going to be. I mean, what SIZE division are we talking about? There's certainly enough for a separate Film Workgroup and a separate Television Workgroup. But I'd have no philosophical problem with a flim and television workgroup, either. But if something like Yoga gets its own workgroup (which I don't think it merits under our present system), and space exploration gets its own workgroup, film and television both should.Aleta Curry 22:36, 15 November 2007 (CST)

Editor welcome

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Welcome, new editor! We're very glad you've joined us. Here are pointers for a quick start. Also, when you get a chance, please read The Editor Role. You can look at Getting Started and our help system for other introductory pages. It is also important, for project-wide matters, to join the Citizendium-L (broadcast) mailing list. Announcements are also available via Twitter. You can test out editing in the sandbox if you'd like. If you need help to get going, the forum is one option. That's also where we discuss policy and proposals. You can ask any administrator for help, too. Just put a note on their "talk" page. Again, welcome and thank you! We appreciate your willingness to share your expertise, and we hope to see your edits on Recent changes soon. --Larry Sanger 09:20, 19 November 2007 (CST)

'nother friend for ya

User:Michael_Handley - his bio is all about German Shepherd Dogs. --Joe Quick

Dance

I changed the introduction on the article about dance. I believe that i made an improvement. If you believe that i have failed to mention a integral part of your previous definition, you should contact me, and i wil do my best to integrate two different versions into a third. Micha van den Berg 20:58, 22 November 2007 (CST)

Thanks--didn't realise you were online. I've already made a change. Aleta Curry 21:09, 22 November 2007 (CST)

I think we have to be carefull, dance needs to be able to define both modern art and dance, tribal dances and animals matings dances. I changes the definition again, does it look better? I think we need to create two definitions of dance. 1) very abstract and trancendial. 2) The other more ritualised forms of movement that can have different names and meanings in different societies. Also try and respond on my talk page so i will get a message. Micha van den Berg 21:33, 22 November 2007 (CST)

MiniFoxies

Congratulations! Looks like you are the first to obtain what I'd call "blanket permission" from an entity to use their photos. This means the permission gets a separate special page and its own template to tag photos, {{Bypermission-noreuse-minifoxieclub}}. This makes it easier in the future when using photos from them - the template already links to the permission. Stephen Ewen 23:41, 22 November 2007 (CST)

Steve, thanks for all your effort. I've just made a deletion: those letters contained my personal e-mail address--the one used by family and friends--which I naturally don't want floating about the web. Thanks again. Aleta Curry 16:09, 25 November 2007 (CST)

Okay, I've locked the page now. Stephen Ewen 17:53, 25 November 2007 (CST)

Opening sentence of the vitamin C page

Hi, thanks for the help! It is important to be clear in the opening sentence of an article, indeed... Would you agree with the sentence I propose? Thanks in advance. Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 15:38, 25 November 2007 (CST)

Yes, replied at the talk page--that's excellent! No wonder you're a "terminologist"! Aleta Curry 16:02, 25 November 2007 (CST)

Garden defs

Any reason why you are not using the def templates on all the entries in the Garden/Catalogs or is that the long term plan? This brings up an interesting question about whether this should be on the related Articles page and, if so, what should a catalog on this topic look like? I don't have answers, just some random thoughts. Chris Day (talk) 03:22, 26 November 2007 (CST)

"No", "yes", and then again, "no". I'm having a bit of trouble with this, for reasons you've already realised. For one thing, sometimes my definitions also had a note, like for Greenhouse, "see also Shadehouse, below" or some such. Well, obviously, that works in a list, but not in a template definition. When I tried to add a note like "see item XYZ below" or "XYZ- aka PQR-sometimes called ABC" it messed up the template, and I didn't see a way to fix it. Had the same problem in Animalier; when I tried to do the catalogue and the templates and say, for example, that George Earl was the father of Maud Earl, below.

The other problem is of course as you say: what the heck is the difference between "related articles" and "catalogs". The template for related articles says something like "articles about subject ABC". Well, that's not exactly true as I see it. For instance, at Tallong I would think that Southern Highlands, NSW and the Apple Industry and the Royal Easter Show were all related, but obviously, none of those things is about Tallong itself per se.

Finally, back to catalogs: when do we put the catalog at the page, as I began doing at Garden/catalogs, and when do we place a list of catalogs, as I did at banana/catalog?

I don't have any answers, either!

Aleta Curry 14:35, 26 November 2007 (CST)

Esposende

Thanks, but I'm not in London & I never get up until the afternoon, so I might as well be in America - Ro Thorpe 09:10, 5 December 2007 (CST)

How cool. Oh, now I remember--Hayford said something about your eating some yummy-sounding Portuguese dish a while back--I get it now! Aleta Curry 19:32, 5 December 2007 (CST)

Ah, right. I wonder what dish that was - Ro Thorpe 17:25, 6 December 2007 (CST)

Dance

Please contact me after you made changes to an article, I made a contribution in. This is not wikipedia. I wrote a lot of text in this article about dance, and you made a several big changes; without notifying me. Micha van den Berg 10:43, 5 December 2007 (CST)

Micha, I think you need to consider carefully whether you are developing a proprietary attitude towards this article. I do not believe that I am required to "notify" anybody before I edit anything. As it happens, I discussed the problems I had with your text at the talk page. You made several "big changes" as well, remember. Please contact a constable if you feel you need to. Aleta Curry 13:42, 5 December 2007 (CST)

Since you asked for independent comments: -))) I had a look at the article changes and the Talk page. My personal feeling was that Micha's last edits were good, and show some deep understanding of the topic; this is not to say that there was a problem with your contributions, Aleta, but Micha is taking a different approach. Insofar as the "racial" or "ethnic" aspects are concerned, re the removed discussion on Talk, this is something which I am fairly expert on. My opinion is that it is legitimate to discuss cultural differences as real things, but of course, the actual wording has to be careful. Perhaps Micha can write some ideas down and Aleta [who is a native English speaker] can help with refining the language and presentation. Both of you should try collaboration rather than dispute! --Martin Baldwin-Edwards 14:35, 5 December 2007 (CST)

I agree. I never meant to suggest that cultural differences could not be discussed, of course they should. It is, as you say Martin, the manner in which they are discussed. Aleta Curry 14:41, 5 December 2007 (CST)

Good. Bear in mind that some of these sensitive issues are more obvious to native speakers, and also that you and I are older than Micha [ahem, only a little] and have more experience of being careful with delicate topics...--Martin Baldwin-Edwards 15:30, 5 December 2007 (CST)

Another good point, as usual. I'll do as you say when I can bear to go back to this. I should have chosen my words more carefully in the beginning, anyway. Aleta Curry 15:40, 5 December 2007 (CST)

Yes, you called me a bigot and referred to my work as new age; and that made me very angry. My vault is that i spoke towards you in a authoritarian manner. If you had notified me I would have explained to you, why I used the two words spiritual/meditative and the sentence our westernised definition. Please contact me about this matter. I understand that there are some cultural gaps between American and Dutch society, for example; we still use the word negro (neger) to describe African people; but we never had a history of extensive slavery; so the word still exists in the Dutch language.

You don’t have to respond at my talk page when you make changes. But have to… and it would be courteous to… are two different things and I will leave you free in your choices. Besides that you did add a few good changes and we will need to iron that out; but! We will need to go into several discussion on the topic of dance before I am satisfied that your changes are adequate. I will look through the changes you made; to make sure that I did not overlook anything useful you wrote and think about my own definitions. Micha van den Berg 16:11, 5 December 2007 (CST)

No, Micha, I did not call you a bigot. In my opinion, the sectioning of the article as you had structured it would lead us down a path with racist overtones.

Here's what I mean: when I was a child, it was perfectly acceptable to refer to, say, Africans as belonging to different tribes. However, in a similar context, Welshmen and Irishmen and Britons and Danes and Frenchmen would not be described as belong to different "tribes" of white people. That's not done anymore; I expect educated, cultured people to use the same type of language in categorising persons. It's not a questions of trying to pretend there are not differences, it's a question of, "are the differences being described with the same level of respect?" To bring it back to dance, when I was a girl, ballet was described as "classical dance", English dance was called "country dancing" and African dance was "tribal dancing". Well, that's not true. Ballet is "classical dance" for some caucasians; English country dancing is one type of tribal dance and Nigerian dance is another. I was very happy to see a recent documentary on "classical Thai dance"; the filmmakers clearly made language choices that would not have been thought of decades earlier.

As to your language example, it's an interesting one, but you have to adjust your premise. It is not so much a question of one culture vs. another, indeed we cannot allow it to be. It is a question of, when writing in English in the 21st Century, are we using appropriate language. You could not, to use your example, translate literally from the Dutch neger to the English negro (unless you were quoting something, or using the word in I don't know what limited context) and get away with it. It's not just that *I* would object to it, I suspect a large number of CZers from around the globe whose first language was English would object; at least I hope they would.

Aleta Curry 19:26, 5 December 2007 (CST)

Every time you use culture and ethnicity as a ground for describing diversity in arts; dance, music or literature. You become a racialist. Someone who recognises that the concept of race is a very important factor in the way a people shape or express themselves. For example; we have a article about African American literature on this wikia. That is one of the most racial definitions on this encyclopaedia; but it makes sense because in American society, where race hatred is very common; there exist such a thing as racial separation in the minds of most Americans and this has prevented American society from forming anything that comes close to a homogenous culture.

To be honest i have no idea what you actually mean. Maybe it is my foreign upbringing; but i can't make head or tails out of your response. It seems to me that you are bringing a lot of material into this discussion that i had no contact with, and should not be discussed Right now. I never said i wanted to use the word negro in an article at citizendium, because American slavery made that word hateful. I feel that you are pushing me into a direction. I am not able to understand why the idea of a separate African-American and European-American culture in the same country is wrong or could not be discussed? Micha van den Berg 11:54, 6 December 2007 (CST)

I think i have a better idea: We will make a list of the 10 - 20 most common American, Canadian and Mexican dances and if there are no clear cultural boundaries between different types of dances we would have a single North-American culture. On the other hand; if we do discover different cultural and ethnic dance cultures in North-America then we should describe them per culture. Micha van den Berg 12:04, 6 December 2007 (CST)

Your note on Write-a-Thon

Hi Aleta, I was really busy these last few weeks, so unfortunately I was not able to participate in the December Write-a-Thon (nor have I been able to contribute anything else which is substantial). Cheerio, --Hendra I. Nurdin 05:42, 8 December 2007 (CST)

Good to hear from you, Hendra. We'll see you next time! Aleta Curry 15:20, 8 December 2007 (CST)

Not shy boy, absent minded scientist

Thanks for the note Aleta. I just forgot to sign up on the Write-a-thon board this month. David E. Volk 09:09, 10 December 2007 (CST)

That, then, would make me the absent minded professor... Thanks, A..., you narcis..., narcissi..., you, well...YOU!!! Blessings... --Michael J. Formica 09:27, 10 December 2007 (CST)

Maltese (dog)

This needs your attention, dog lady. I have 4 of the little buggers, and wrote most of this article for Wikipedia. Blessings... --Michael J. Formica 09:49, 10 December 2007 (CST)

I read the article with interest, Michael, thanks. Great start! I will make some suggestions, mostly along the lines of not confusing the factual and the anecdotal. It doesn't look like I can stay online today, but I'll be back asap. Aleta Curry 16:53, 10 December 2007 (CST)

Wags tail

Thanks for the plug, says raucous extrovert Ro Thorpe 13:08, 10 December 2007 (CST)

table

Sorry I misattributed you work on the table. Good stuff, you used it in the way I envisaged. I don't mind what people call articles now as they can be changed latter. The main issue is to have some ground rules and I think the table is the best way to represent these. Chris Day (talk) 10:22, 18 December 2007 (CST)

Sorry I missed it

I promise I will make an attempt to show up at the next Write-A-Thon Aleta. Thank you for the thought though, and Happy Holidays Eric M Gearhart

Cool! Nice to hear from you. You have the very merriest, too! Aleta Curry 22:18, 23 December 2007 (CST)

unorphaning

That'd be "adopting". --Robert W King 18:58, 26 December 2007 (CST) Maybe on the wiki, where the adoption procedures are less formal and protracted, "linking" would do :-) --Martin Baldwin-Edwards 19:09, 26 December 2007 (CST)

"Adopting"--Hahahahahahahaha!

Everybody's a comedian!

Bunch of wise-donkeys, aren't ya?

Aleta Curry 19:30, 26 December 2007 (CST)

Of course, if you find a lot of orphans we could set up an orphanage instead:-)--Martin Baldwin-Edwards 19:55, 26 December 2007 (CST)

Email

Following your instructions, I got a blank page for me to write to you. Anyway, if it's about your asking me what the inferno I was doing on the Arthur Wardle page, forget it, I did blunder there somehow - except that you could have made it clear to me what it was you were referring to - at the time it seemed you were complaining about my War on Unnecessary Capitals (which is Very Justified).

I'm more concerned, actually, that I don't have email enabled - do you know how I can fix that? - Ro Thorpe 16:55, 28 December 2007 (CST)

Yes, it was about that, I wanted to say 'sorry'. I tease a lot, that's just me, but someone informed me that it was offensive; I was surprised, but concerned. I need to remember that people cannot see facial expression and hear tone in print. By the way--I missed the whole war on unnecessary capitals thing--like the Concord--right over my head.

Yes, I do know how to fix that. At the top of the CZ screen you'll see a row of blue options, beginning with your name. Click my preferences, two places to the right of that. Then you can type in an e-mail address, then go all the way to the e-mail section at the bottom, and tick "enable e-mail from other users" or whatever it's called.

Aleta Curry 17:55, 28 December 2007 (CST)

Ah, 'my preferences', of course. Thanks, I've fixed that.

It's OK, I've got used to your tone of voice.

The capitals thing is just me, but all are welcome... Ro Thorpe 18:35, 28 December 2007 (CST)

See...

Talk:List_of_mountain_ranges. Stephen Ewen 20:48, 29 December 2007 (CST)