Talk:Ulster Unionism

Right

This is about as far as I can take this without exploding in a wave of bias and anti-Unionist fervour. I'll let an expert develop it further Denis Cavanagh 04:51, 21 August 2007 (CDT)

Checklist

I've decided to expand this. I have started by describing the period of Unionist control of Northern Ireland (1921-1972), perhaps this should be in a seperate article. please let me know Denis Cavanagh 08:19, 29 August 2007 (CDT)

Nice job, and neutrally written. In fact, if anything, there is a lack of criticism - such as why there was a need for the civil rights marches, for example (discrimination in housing, jobs, etc.). For now, I think, this is better off staying as one article - it can always be split off later if/when its expanded further. Anton Sweeney 11:55, 29 August 2007 (CDT)

Ulster Unionism vs Unionism

I think this article might have to be renamed. The article is about unionism, but this is a different thing than Ulster Unionists - a phrase which is ambiguous because it can refer specifically to the Ulster Unionist Party. Although the UUP had been the mainstream unionist political party since before Home Rule was introduced (when it had been an all-Ireland concern), it is not all there is to unionism - particularly not today, given we have had Loyalism, the DUP, PUP, TUV, UDP etc etc. --Mal McKee 13:25, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Good point - what do you suggest - maybe Unionist Politics in Northern Ireland? with a redirect from Ulster Unionism?Gareth Leng 13:53, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't think we should confine it to Northern Ireland. Unionism existed before the Free State separated, and it also encompassed the Conservative and Unionist Party and half the Liberals. It becomes relevant with the increase of interest in separatism in Wales, Scotland and Cornwall, (etc) too. Unionism, as far as I can see, encompasses anything from a generic sense of a united British people (a United Kingdom), right through to a more militant rejection of separatism, including the extremists of Loyalism in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

I think, to start with, we should consider whether to make this article a more generalised one about unionism in this region of Europe, or concentrate on the history of unionism as it pertains to Ireland as an opposing ideology to separatism. --Mal McKee 15:27, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Religion tag

The Religion tag should be removed from this article. This is about a political ideology, not a religious movement or organisation. --Mal McKee 13:32, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

I agree and have just done it, and put Politics first.Gareth Leng 13:51, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Gareth. Nobody would deny the complication of religion in the whole, long history and the overlap with regard to religion and religious 'camps', politically speaking. The influence of religious beliefs should of course be mentioned and discussed, but the subject is not primarily about religion per se. --Mal McKee 16:13, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Illogical lede?

Part of the lede of this article currently reads:

Ulster Unionism, or Irish Unionism is the belief that Northern Ireland (and, prior to 1921, the whole of Ireland) should remain a part of United Kingdom. Its roots as a political ideology go as far back as the Glorious Revolution in the late seventeenth century. Irish Presbyterians, and other Dissenters had helped found the United Irishmen in the late 18th century, and support for the 1798 Rebellion in Ulster. In the ensuing years however, mostly as a result of the European Religious wars which culminated in warfare between Roman Catholics and Protestants in Ireland during the Williamite War"...

This section shuffles historical events out of chronological order: the Society of United Irishmen was founded a whole century after the Williamite War. It would be an interesting thing to discuss the reasons for change of heart of Ulster Presbyterians in the century after the failed 1798 Rebellion, but the Williamite War was obviously not the reason, as it occured nearly exactly one hundred years prior to their formation of the Society.

Of note, and on a slightly different subject, I believe that Carson was opposed to the idea of partition. What he did want was a continuation of Ulster's status as part of the United Kingdom. There is a difference. The people who advocated partition, were the people who negotiated the Anglo-Irish Treaty - a process which entirely left out the Unionists of Ulster and, in fact, the Unionists of Ireland as a whole. --Mal McKee 16:09, 19 February 2011 (UTC)