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| Carried over from [[Biology/Draft]] talk. To be cleaned up for clarity [[User:David Tribe|David Tribe]] 22:00, 30 January 2007 (CST)
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| ==Formating conventions==
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| * The reference format style started in [[Horizontal gene transfer]] is being currently followed in an attempt at typographical consistency. Boooks are being cited here by the authors' full name and ISBN numbers are being used to minimize needed detail.
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| * At some later stage we may well use non abbreviated jounal titles for clarity but currently this would expand the size of some articles with many references
| | (Preceding talk transferred to Help:citation style) |
| | == Move proposal == |
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| * "Quotes", for direct quotes, 'scientific method' for special emphasis.
| | From reading this article, it doesn't cover the topic "citation style" but rather covers "citation style ''in CZ articles''". I propose moving this page to [[Help:citation style]] and adding a link to this page from somewhere such as [[Help:Contents]]. |
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| * Also possible is use of reference method: <nowiki><ref name=Smith> </nowiki> giving names to citation when first used [[User:David Tribe|David Tribe]] 20:09, 26 January 2007 (CST)
| | Additionally, why is this in the biology workgroup and biology(top)? |
| | [[User:Derek Harkness|Derek Harkness]] 13:02, 31 January 2007 (CST) |
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| ===A Style manual for citation from PloS Biology Slightly modified ?===
| | The points you bring Derek up seem very reasonable, and perhaps more completely relevant to the talk section notes, and they only exist here because I wasn't familiar with the method for creating a Help section, but I realise now what to do, |
| See link for their format
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| [http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/guidelines.php]
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| ==Formating conventions==
| | On the other hand the text in the article itself could stay and be changed dramatically to more suit "real" life. I dont yet see it as fitting either category real or CZ use especially well yet |
| * The reference format style started in [[Horizontal gene transfer]] is being currently followed in an attempt at typographical consistency. Books are being cited here by the authors' full name and ISBN numbers are being used to minimize needed detail.
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| * At some later stage we may well use non abbreviated journal titles for clarity but currently this would expand the size of some articles with many references (see later comments below)
| | As far as categories biology workgroup and biology(top), any mechanism that flags it for top priority attention in this work group is fine. I'm deleting the biology tag but leaving the top tag |
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| * "Quotes", for direct quotes, 'scientific method' for special emphasis.
| | This flags the article as needing top priority attention by the Biology workgroup. |
| | What is the alternative way of flagging an article for top work group attention that is in a different topic category to the workgroup? [[User:David Tribe|David Tribe]] 14:38, 31 January 2007 (CST) |
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| * Also possible is use the technique of naming reference method: <nowiki><ref name=Smith> </nowiki> giving names to citation when first used, which produces less citations is one is cited several times This doesnt reall change style excepting giving fancy numbers in the final list [[User:David Tribe|David Tribe]] 20:09, 26 January 2007 (CST)
| | == Article structure == |
| | | Hi, I wonder if this article might benefit from describing a wider range of citation styles, with section headings for each? At the moment the article seems heavily science-based; is there not a case for tidying the article up by applying sections for Harvard, Chicago, APA and other notable styles? [[User:Stephen Tapril|Stephen Tapril]] 16:41, 8 July 2007 (CDT) |
| ===A future Style manual for citations from PloS Biology Slightly modified===
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| This is an attempt to create a new reference style model for the future based on PLoS
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| See link for PLoS Biology format
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| [http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/guidelines.php]
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| (Parts transferes to [[Citation style]] talk, and the deleted here for clarity)[[User:David Tribe|David Tribe]] 22:08, 30 January 2007 (CST)
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| References
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| ... For all references, <s>list the first five authors</s> We should only give one plus et al. if there are more than two); add "et al." if there are additional authors. You can include a DOI number for the full-text article as an alternative to or in addition to traditional volume and page numbers. Please use the following style for the reference list:
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| Published Papers
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| Better
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| 1. Anandalakshmi R ''et al.'' (1998) [http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/95/22/13079 A viral suppressor of gene silencing in plants]. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 95:13079–13084. Open access
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| Two authors
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| Published Papers
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| 2. Anandalakshmi R, Defffa J (1998) [http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/95/22/13079 A viral suppressor of gene silencing in plants]. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 95:13079–13084. Open access
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| 3. Bernstein E ''et al.'' (2001) Role for a bidentate ribonuclease in the initiation step of RNA interference. Nature 409:363–366. PMID 11201747
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| Accepted Papers
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| Same as above, but "In press" appears instead of the page numbers. Example: Adv Clin Path. In press.
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| Electronic Journal Articles
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| 4. Loker WM (1996) "Campesinos" and the crisis of modernization in Latin America. Jour Pol Ecol 3. Available: [http://www.library.arizona.edu/ej/jpe/volume_3/ascii-lokeriso.txt]. Accessed 11 August 2006.
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| Books
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| 5. Bates B (1992) Bargaining for life: A social history of tuberculosis. Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press. 435 p.
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| or
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| 5. Bates B (1992) Bargaining for life: A social history of tuberculosis. ISBN 12345677
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| Book Chapters
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| 6. Hansen B (1991) New York City epidemics and history for the public. In: Harden VA Risse GB editors. AIDS and the historian. Bethesda: National Institutes of Health. pp. 21–28.
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| Reference Style Model in electronic final form?:
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| [http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pbio.0020133]
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| 5. Xie Z et al. (2004) Genetic and functional diversification of small RNA pathways in plants. PloS Biol 2:e104 doi: [http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.0020028 10.1371/journal.pbio.0020104].
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| A variant on the above closer to what Gareth Leng suggested to me:
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| <s>1. Anandalakshmi R ''et al.'' (1998) [http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/95/22/13079 A viral suppressor of gene silencing in plants]. ''Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A'' '''95''':13079–13084. Open access </s>
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| Crossed[[User:David Tribe|David Tribe]] 20:13, 30 January 2007 (CST)
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| ==Revised reference style proposal==
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| As above
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| Taking raw PubMed text and PLos izing it, and shortening authors.
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| RAW start Pubmed:
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| 1: Bernstein E, Caudy AA, Hammond SM, Hannon GJ.
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| Role for a bidentate ribonuclease in the initiation step of RNA interference.
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| Nature. 2001 Jan 18;409(6818):363-6.
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| PMID: 11201747 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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| ====The PubMed to PloS briefened conversion with only deletion and date typing and insertion of ''et al.'' Probably suited to a future automatic software algorithm for Pubmed conversion.====
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| '''Exhibit A'''
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| : 1. Bernstein E ''et al.'' (2001) Role for a bidentate ribonuclease in the initiation step of RNA interference. Nature. 409:363-6. PMID 11201747
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| ====Automated PMID====
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| But using link to algorithm engin provided by Gareth , that is [http://diberri.dyndns.org/wikipedia/cite/?type=pubmed]
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| <nowiki>{{cite journal |author=Bernstein E, Caudy A, Hammond S, Hannon G |title=Role for a bidentate ribonuclease in the initiation step of RNA interference |journal=Nature |volume=409 |issue=6818 |pages=363-6 |year=2001 |id=PMID 11201747}}
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| {{cite journal |author=Bernstein E ''et al.''|title=Role for a bidentate ribonuclease in the initiation step of RNA interference |journal=Nature |volume=409 |pages=363-6 |year=2001 |id=PMID 11201747}}</nowiki>
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| Gives:
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| '''Exhibit B'''
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| {{cite journal |author=Bernstein E, Caudy A, Hammond S, Hannon G |title=Role for a bidentate ribonuclease in the initiation step of RNA interference |journal=Nature |volume=409 |issue=6818 |pages=363-6 |year=2001 |id=PMID 11201747}}
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| '''Exhibit C'''
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| {{cite journal |author=Bernstein E ''et al.''|title=Role for a bidentate ribonuclease in the initiation step of RNA interference |journal=Nature |volume=409 |pages=363-6 |year=2001 |id=PMID 11201747}}
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| ----
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| ==Formal reference biology style proposal==
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| I propose (float the conjecture) that all the three exhibits are, A, B, C acceptable, and that if any one is chosen that it must be used consistently
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| :I prefer '''Exhibit A.''' Its about as easy as the B and C to do. It fits with using PLOS as a style manual better
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| : Thus the guideline proposed is: "Follow PLoS Biology as closely as practical but allow briefer author lists (e.g. exhibit A) and where appropriate for reader clarity full journal titles. Technical articles will not need full titles but more general,introductory or more topical articles will need full journal titles. Adopt citation styles that that fit this guideline which can created by easy manual editing of raw PubMed text output. " [[User:David Tribe|David Tribe]] 21:24, 30 January 2007 (CST)
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| This proposal is for further comment and draws on (Gareth Leng's?) bolded comments just below, which were bolded by [[User:David Tribe|David Tribe]] 20:29, 30 January 2007 (CST)
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| Couple of comments
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| 1) Most style manuals propose that n'''on English words be italicized''' except when they are incorporated into normal use - thus ''in vivo'' but vice versa. Thus it would be ''et al''' - but this is something for CZ-wide style to decide.
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| 2) '''PubMed citations give the page range as 13079-84.'''
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| 3) Ideally I'd like to see a simple way of importing from PubMed directly into CZ style, that way, as we check we can copy edit too. '''Please see this'''
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| [http://diberri.dyndns.org/wikipedia/cite/?type=pubmed] -
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| Not perfect but easily edited. I guess using a template like this has the advantage that reference templates can later be changed to implement a future style change en masse?
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| 4) Books are a problem, and there's a case for giving authors names in full
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| I guess.'''Follow PLos for Style'''
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| 5) '''There's a case for putting some journal titles in full in some articles''' - ''Sci Am'' is fine
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| in a scholarly list but for an introductory article perha[ps ''Scientific American'' would be better.
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| 6) '''So think we may need ''slightly'' different guidelines''' depending on the intended readership??
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| : Accepted [[User:David Tribe|David Tribe]] 20:29, 30 January 2007 (CST)
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| Well done for taking this on. I do think it's important to get this consistent; I don't mind what convention is adopted, but think it's important we have one. [[User:Gareth Leng|Gareth Leng]] 06:59, 30 January 2007 (CST)
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| : I've previously been following you with bold vol numbers. Ital Journal titles.
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| Amazingly, the WP MOS has inconsistent references in its own (Physics type ) type style manual!
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| :The advantage of PloS with minimal change is
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| 1. The Style Manual is almost already done.
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| 2. Minimal key work for italics and bold. Needs a few more full stops and commas than Ive been using so far. The less keywork the easier to get followers to follow. Glad to see that a retreat from yor suggest is pragmatically possible.
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| :I'm now going to propose (see above) that we follow PLos with some mimimal changes and allow ISBN and PMIDs and doi to enable shorter citations and see what the response is [[User:David Tribe|David Tribe]] 20:03, 30 January 2007 (CST)
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| : We can use all this grinding work Biology as a testing ground and precedent for style and process.[[User:David Tribe|David Tribe]] 20:13, 30 January 2007 (CST)
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(Preceding talk transferred to Help:citation style)
Move proposal
From reading this article, it doesn't cover the topic "citation style" but rather covers "citation style in CZ articles". I propose moving this page to Help:citation style and adding a link to this page from somewhere such as Help:Contents.
Additionally, why is this in the biology workgroup and biology(top)?
Derek Harkness 13:02, 31 January 2007 (CST)
The points you bring Derek up seem very reasonable, and perhaps more completely relevant to the talk section notes, and they only exist here because I wasn't familiar with the method for creating a Help section, but I realise now what to do,
On the other hand the text in the article itself could stay and be changed dramatically to more suit "real" life. I dont yet see it as fitting either category real or CZ use especially well yet
As far as categories biology workgroup and biology(top), any mechanism that flags it for top priority attention in this work group is fine. I'm deleting the biology tag but leaving the top tag
This flags the article as needing top priority attention by the Biology workgroup.
What is the alternative way of flagging an article for top work group attention that is in a different topic category to the workgroup? David Tribe 14:38, 31 January 2007 (CST)
Article structure
Hi, I wonder if this article might benefit from describing a wider range of citation styles, with section headings for each? At the moment the article seems heavily science-based; is there not a case for tidying the article up by applying sections for Harvard, Chicago, APA and other notable styles? Stephen Tapril 16:41, 8 July 2007 (CDT)
