Talk:Bill Clinton

Article Checklist for "Bill Clinton"

Workgroup category or categories	Politics Workgroup, History Workgroup, Topic Informant Workgroup [Categories OK]
Article status	Developing article: beyond a stub, but incomplete
Underlinked article?	No
Basic cleanup done?	Yes
Checklist last edited by	Versuri 10:25, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

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Word Choice

Which would be the best word to describe those of alternative sexual preference; "gay" or "homosexual"?--Robert W King 09:56, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Gushing?

This turn of phrase comes across like cheerleading: "Known as a brilliant campaigner and policy wonk ...". Aren't all Presidents brilliant campaigners? Aren't all gold medalists "brilliant athletes"? All Presidents also know a great deal about policy. I think Clinton is a brilliant campaigner. I think Bill Clinton knows policy. But what President doesn't?

Also, it has been argued that it's of prime importance to mention that George W. Bush didn't win the popular vote vs. Gore. Is it important to mention that Clinton did not win a majority in either of his elections? Will Nesbitt

Clinton was a much better campaigner than Kerry, Gore, Dukakis, Mondale, or Carter, experts agree. He's a policy wonk, they all agree--like Gore but UNLIKE George W. Bush or Ronald Reagan. Richard Jensen 07:14, 22 July 2007 (CDT)

Clinton is a better campaigner than Carter, who only won one term. None of the others you mention were Presidents. Carter was clearly a better campaigner than Kerry, Gore, Dukakis or Mondale. (I voted for both Dukakis and Mondale, btw.) So the question remains, what President wasn't a great campaigner? Truman, Nixon, Kennedy, Reagan and virtually every other two term President was a "brilliant campaigner". Can't we just say he had two terms? That's a fact. His "brilliance" is an opinion. It is an opinion that can be argued.

Consider this: if Bill Clinton was so brilliant then why did ALL of the candidates you just mentioned gain a higher percentage of the popular vote than Clinton. And MOST of those candidates lost! A lot more people voted for Gore than Clinton in either of Clinton's elections. (It must be noted that I'm not arguing your point. I'm merely showing that the point can be argued.)

I would much safer and much less inflammatory to report the fact that he won two terms instead of taking an official stance on Clinton's brilliance. Alternately, we could cite an expert who said Clinton but brilliant.

We don't know much about the Bush administration yet, because he's still in office. When Reagan was in office it was widely reported that (and I believed that) he was a bit of a good natured dolt. The story was that Reagan didn't really understand this or that. Now that the internal documents have been released and now that Reagan is in a historical context, we have learned that he had a brilliant political mind and he was far more involved than anyone ever suspected at the time.

I don't understand why those opinions remain in the text, but the fact that Clinton never won a majority is not mentioned. Compare and contrast this with the George W. Bush. I don't care if it's mentioned or not, but I do think there should be something resembling consistency. The Bush intro is about vote counts. The Clinton intro is about how brilliant he is? Will Nesbitt 09:23, 22 July 2007 (CDT)

I'd rather build a consensus than edit in a vacuum, but if I receive no response I'll assume that this is a non-issue and insert. Will Nesbitt 08:56, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

The rules of the game call for winning the electoral college, with Clinton did by two landslides (compare Bush's two very-narrow=electoral colege wins) Richard Jensen 10:32, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

On evaluations of Clinton's campaign skills see [1] I have never seen a serious critic challenge the consensus about his skills, often compared to Reagan as the best in 60+ years </ref>

My argument is that everyone who won two presidential elections (except possibly Washington) was a pretty good campaigner. On the other hand, if the name of the game is winning the electoral college then why mention the popular vote when talking about Bush. I don't care which way it's reported, but it should be reported the same way for both presidents. Will Nesbitt 11:29, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

BTW, there is a big difference between quoting an expert who describes Clinton as a brilliant campaigner and arriving at a value judgment then stating Clinton is a brilliant campaigner. Will Nesbitt 11:57, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

Pardons

Is there room in this article for the Marc Rich et al pardons on the way out the door? Will Nesbitt 09:31, 22 July 2007 (CDT)