Talk:Pedophilia

Article Checklist for "Pedophilia"

Workgroup category or categories	Psychology Workgroup, Sociology Workgroup [Categories OK]
Article status	Developing article: beyond a stub, but incomplete
Underlinked article?	No
Basic cleanup done?	No
Checklist last edited by	Mike Mayors (Talk) 12:11, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

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Mike- are you quoting? If so- put in the quotation marks and give your references. Put the references down as you read the ones I sent you under References, please. Thanks, Nancy Sculerati 14:25, 9 June 2007 (CDT)

Actually I just know that from doing online reading - but sure, I'll provide the reference you sent to me. Thanks. Mike Mayors (Talk) 14:35, 9 June 2007 (CDT)

Citing sources?

I'm not sure how to cite it properly. When someone gets a chance, can you check/correct my citation in the introduction? Mike Mayors (Talk) 14:38, 9 June 2007 (CDT)

Controversy

The goal here is to present this topic in an encyclopedic and neutral manner. The goal here is to be a great on-line free encyclopedia. I am willing to help you do that. This is by nature a contentious subject and our goal has nothing to do with a head to head rivalry with Wikipedia. It can be destructive to the wiki to fcus on contentious and inflammatory subjects - like child sexual abuse and pedophilia. I am willing to do that because I am expert enough to guide us in making an informative article that is NOT contentious, but educates according to the consensus of modern medicine, including the work of clinical psychologtists. No one here is expert enough to make the most controversial and inflammatory aspects of this topic the centerpiece of this article, and I have overstepped my bounds here to avoid that. Just like fat and salt taste best, and pornography draws a crowd, so does conetentiousness- that doesn't mean any of these things are good for us. Quite the opposite. Please, let us consider what is important about this topic in an educational manner. Unless you personally have the expertise to guide this article through the most fringe and inflammatory aspects of the subject, I ask you to refrain from putting up a guide post or plan that inplies that's the course the article should take. If you disagree, please e-mail me privately through my user page. Nancy Sculerati 10:10, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

I totally concur, Nancy. Yi Zhe Wu 10:12, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

Same here. I'll do my best to find non-controversial sources. Mike Mayors (Talk) 10:15, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

Prevalence

Excellent job, I'm glad someone revamped my poorly worded sentences. However I do have a question about the opening sentence:

"With rare exceptions, sexual contact with prepubescent children is socially discouraged, socially unacceptable, or a criminal offense in all modern societies."

While that is true as it contributes to problems with pedophilia research, would it not be more accurate to say "the sexual attraction towards prepubescent children" as it does not imply criminal offenses and refers specifically to the disorder itself? Mike Mayors (Talk) 16:01, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

I'm not saying that this is worded perfectly, but look back inthe article's history, it replaced the phrase that there is a "natural reluctance" to admit to pedophilia. The point is that there are few if any soicieties in which pediophilia is a social plus, the whole issue of what exactly is natural behavior really should not be assumed. But yes, it might be better to say that sexua contact with prepubescent children is socially discouraged, and that therefore compulsive longings to have such contact ... In other words, it's not as if we are taught that thinking about it is forbidden so much that doing it is taught to be un-natural , criminal, etc and therefore admitting to wanting to do it is not a nice thing to do either. Nancy Sculerati 18:35, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

I see...well it's worded better than I could have written it. Plus the difference between the sexual attraction and the urge to commit criminal offenses is municipal, as they both go back to the disorder itself. I'll just leave it as is. Plus the article is far from finished. I'll try to find more information to add to it. Mike Mayors (Talk) 20:06, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

Is "pedophilic " a word?

I've seen it used in the context of pedophilic fantasies ... according to dictionary.com it is ... but my spell checker doesn't recognize it. Mike Mayors (Talk) 16:03, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

In terms of suffix it should be...but...my spelling checker doesn't recognize it either. Yi Zhe Wu 16:02, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

Oxford English Dictionary-current online edition : paedophilic | pedophilic, a. and n.

A. adj. = PAEDOPHILIAC a.

1927 Psychoanal. Rev. 14 191 It is only in rare cases that one encounters an individual who has pedophilic predilections and at the same time is suffering from venereal disease. 1954 Jrnl. Projective Techniques 18 348/1 The rapists probably do differ from the pedophiles, however, on the variable of aggression, the majority of the pedophilic acts having been of a passive and seductive nature. 1994 Irish Times (Nexis) 17 May 4 What was at issue was his paedophilic inclination towards children.

Yes. It is. One reason I don't use a spell checker is that none include the majority of medical terms. This is an unusual word, true, but you would not use pediophilia as an adjective. It is a noun. Nancy Sculerati 18:26, 10 June 2007 (CDT) PS- I really shouldn't even try to make excuses for my dreadful spelling. What I should do is thank you both for fixing it so often. :-)

That's alright, spelling/grammar issues are only important when the article is ready for approval. Right now I'm going to focus on adding substance and content. Mike Mayors (Talk) 20:09, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

Pedophilia a sexual orientation?

The opening line of this article calls pedophilia a "sexual orientaton". I am no expert in this but that just does not sit right. Who says it is an "orientation"? I am concerned that that is how it would be characterized in a sterile way by pedophiliacs, especially in light of the DSM calling it a sexual deviation, a mental disorder. Stephen Ewen 03:35, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Fred Berlin does, among many others. It is probably the most used term among experts. Note that calling something a orientation does not mean that it cannot be a disorder at the same time. David Kuhn 03:44, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

I also see that you changed DSM and ICD to mental health professionals. I can see the appeal, but it doesn't fit the data very well as many mental health professionals disagree and do not use DSM or ICD in their diagnoses. There has been alot written about this over the years. DSM and ICD is more in line with the data. David Kuhn 03:49, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

DSM or ICD are jargon to more than half our readers. Stephen Ewen 04:01, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

That's is why they are meant to link to describing articles. The problem with your alternative is that it is less specific, which is more problematic due to all the controversy on that topic. David Kuhn 04:00, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

There is a way to link and describe more plainly. Also, I am not impressed that "Berlin and many others" would call it in orientation. We can cite Eminent Person A and many others who will say pedophilia is normal and should be accepted. So what? I am also not impressed if a minority finds the DSM classification of their disorder objectionable. Again, so what? What an encyclopedia should tell in an intro is the general majority consensus of all experts. It should not appease a minority who wish to have their deviance accepted. Stephen Ewen 04:06, 27 June 2007 (CDT)